Vicar Philip

No, B.shack, part of her apprehension is because she knows, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that I'm not going back. I'm not going back to a theistic mind set. I cannot, and will not, accept any notion of god as a being up in heaven, manipulating our pathetic little lives. My wife knows that.

My goals in bringing some reason and common sense to her and our friends is to show her that I am indeed sincere and am NOT telling her she has to stop believing; I'm just trying to give them an alternative to the fundy perspective. I don't think most Christians are even aware of a different way to think about a god and a religion. I am hopeful they meet the challenge and maybe, just maybe, can come at it from a different point of view. I would be delighted if my wife could do the same.

We shall see.

Colander of Truth

My gosh what a read. I've been in counseling the past several months. We are being counseled in the Gottman method. John Gottman and his wife are researchers in Seattle, and who have used science and physical evidence to formulate their findings, not just "theory" about how things appear to work for some people, or Mars/Venus allegories.

They indeed have found a way to calm things down and create an improving situation for us. Please look into this therapy, and perhaps both of you can find some consolation in the Gottmans' own marriage - they are also of widely varying backgrounds in some aspects. He is Jewish, and practises to the point of wearing a yarmulke, and she seems agnostic. He has holocaust survivor parents who have influenced his non-materialistic outlook, she is more stuff oriented.

He has published at least two books, and they are practical and pragmatic - applied marriage therapy.

Their videotapes are awesome.

HelenM

I see that there is a website for The Gottman Institute.

I like what they say on their self help page.

I'm glad their therapy has helped you, Subi dura a rudibus

I think there are some basic relationship skills that help any marriage; some people learn good relationship skills growing up; others learn destructive ones; I believe people who need to can learn better skills if they are willing. It will never cease to amaze me that we are taught so much unnecessary stuff in school and beyond and yet we can be very untaught about such things as relationships, which we need to know about since we're continually interacting with others.

And I think people can learn better relationship skills from one another in normal interactions, if they are willing to listen and learn and change - or from books, or from seminars, or from professional counseling.

All I know is, learning them can make a huge difference! And for whatever reasons, some people seem to reach adulthood much better equipped than others, when it comes to relationship skills.

take care
Helen

Vicar Philip

Shit. My wife has a new friend at work who apparently is a fundie in sheep's clothing. My wife has evidently been discussing our problems with this girl, who felt compelled to send my wife some web links, one to www.crown.org and the other to - gag- www.family.org. The "Crown" site is supposed to teach you how to handle your finances.. get this... biblically. Argh. One of the worksheets shows you how to calculate your "Net Spendable Income", which is what you have left after taxes and.... you guessed it.... tithing. Retch.

Here's a little gem I found on the Crown website:
Here he's talking about the "short life" we have here on earth compared to "eternity" (you know, so you'll tithe more!!).

And then there was this:I'm gonna vomit now.

This is great. Just when I thought we were making some progress, I'm hit up with fundy-ism from my wife's work. I just can't fucking win.

Darren

Godless Dave

I have an idea, but you know your wife better than I do obviously.

Don't say anything about it. That tripe is just bad enough that she will be disgusted with it when she reads it. But if you, the evil atheist husband, say anything about it you will be "attacking Christianity" and she will reflexively defend it.

Vicar Philip

Dave,

I could only hope she'd read it and be disgusted with it. But I honestly don't know if that will be the case or not. I had to do a little digging to find those jewels, but it's of that kind of mentality that the website REEKS.

I won't mention it unless she brings it up. Shit. I know she will since she was sure to forward it to me. WW3 coming up!!

VP

southernhybrid

Oh gawd! I hope not!

HelenM

Darren,

I understand that you don't like those sites at all - and IIDB is a great place to express your distaste for them

But, I don't see that it's the end of the world if your wife has a conservative Christian co-worker who recommends conservative Christian sites to her.

Hey, maybe she'll learn some helpful things from Crown ministries. They are intent on teaching people how to get out of debt and how to budget so they stay out of debt. I would think it would be great for your family finances if your wife could learn those skills.

If you expect her not to blame all her problems on your atheism, I hope you aren't now going to turn around and blame yours on her theism...that wouldn't be fair...

I can imagine that her interest in a study group and a UU congregation may have got your hopes up - but I'd urge you not to get on the same emotional rollercoaster she seems to have trouble staying off - the one on which her (your) mood depends on your (her) current level of openness to her (your) belief (nonbelief). Imo, it's a really bad idea to let your happiness be conditioned on something as out of your control as someone else's beliefs or lack thereof.

take care
Helen

Albion

Darren, is your wife the sort of person who dislikes the stable boring old routine? I mean, it doesn't seem as if two days go by before she's throwing fuel on the embers. Some people really do prefer to live in a state of emotional extremes all the time - it just gets hard on the people round them.

Vicar Philip

Albion,

Nah, I don't think she prefers to have turmoil. I think I just over-reacted a little to that e-mail. She asked me if I had checked out those sites, and I described the financial one to her. When I mentioned their focus on tithing, she understood.

Helen, yes, the principles involved probably are sound, but it's difficult for me to get around the underlying premise of the whole damn thing: here's how to save money so you can send it to us. Read the founder's statement. The excerpts I quoted above say it all for me. No thanks.

Something I have realized, and need to be more sensitive of, is the fact that most people don't really know what "fundamentalism" is. We do, of course, because we all discuss it and encounter it every day both on the boards and IRL. Hell, we have entire websites devoted to debunking it, and we're all familiar with the fundy terms and the fundy mindset. As I said, most people don't research it like we do. Regular folks don't even think twice about a lot of it, stuff that sends us (atheists) up the wall.

So anyway, I think I blew the e-mail out of proportion, and my wife and I talked about if for 15 seconds and dropped it. Then we went roller skating with the kids and held hands the entire time. It was a good thing.

See ya.