Theli

A question I've been wondering about is... How can we know that god can perform all possible actions (omnipotence) and not just the ones he has already performed?
If we know nothing about his exact nature (appart from guessing), how can we claim that he has the power to do things we haven't seen him done yet?
I see no logical way to reach the conclution that god is omnipotent.

diana

Such is the weakness of inductive arguments, yes?

But I think we "know" that a god is omnipotent for the same reason we "know" that god exists. Somebody said it was so.

d

wordsmyth

My questions are this. Does God's omniscience limit his omnipotence? Does omnipotence include free will?

Let us presuppose that omniscience entails perfect fore-knowledge. i.e. knowledge of all that will happen.

Let us also presuppose that omnipotence entails not only maximum ability.

In this case God's omniscience would allow him to not only know every action that we will perform, but also every action that He will perform. This would obviously limit God's ability to ever change his mind and/or perform any action that he has not foreseen. It also implies that God is capable of acting but incapable of reacting.

To put it more succinctly, God would only be capable of performing those actions that He has foreseen. If God peformed any action that He has not foreseen, that would imply non-omniscience and/or a lack of fore-knowledge.

Perhaps I'm missing something, but it appears to me that omniscience would limit free will and thus omnipotence.

sandlewood

Agreed. I think that’s one of the problems with applying the notion of infinity to actual abilities. I presume we know that God is omnipotent only because he has told us he is through the Bible. But any super-powered alien could claim the same thing. I think it’s impossible to prove any infinite ability. Someone once told me that they didn’t buy into the idea of “an infinite being requires infinite proof”, but never explained why not. I think it does.

I’m not sure where the idea of omnipotence was derived from. From words like “almighty”? Is that the same thing as omnipotent? Anyway, I thought that Almighty was just God’s last name, since he’s referred to in the Bible as “God Almighty”.

Theli

Thanks for your replies, another hole in the fabric of god, I guess.

JBLurking

Yes the beginning of it all, someone said it was so. You have to admire the originator of the god and religion biz, they create the god tale to soothe the troubled mind, and then they cash in on the gullible. Puts drug dealers to shame profit wise. And if you go against them you find yourself cast as evil by millions, and your fighting an omnipotent god. Who can win that battle?

JB

Theli

I think it's abit missleading to say that a god (like the christian one) was created by a single group of people. The seed was sown long ago, in our minds and in our needs. The christian god is just a new version of the same idea, one out of many in a production line.
It's amazing, the amount of power a fable creature can posess, yet it has never once in history surpased our own.

We are the subjects of our own creation.

7thangel

The conclusion of God's omnipotence can not be concluded as of now. Though
God had given us enormous evidence to support his abilities, or omnipotence. (Either case the omnipotence and abilities refer to the same thing; for they both speak of power over all things.) The Bible, in view of prophecies, God is actually in control of history. That would be enough evidence for us to conclude God's omnipotence.

James Hamlin

Not exactly, 7thangel. God's control of history merely demonstrates his control of history. It is not evidence for abilities to do other things.

Theli

Yes, there is still the opposite of every state of affairs, can god perform they to?
Could god have created 2 universes?
Could god really create a world without "evil"?
I think omnipotence is impossible to imagine, prove or even exist.