haverbob

Well that's fine, but understand that "Rab'ia a Sufi Muslim " is not Allah nor the words of the Quran. If I was given the perfect word, I wouldn't need this person's words. It's an interpretation, but not the direct words of God. That's what I was referring to. Don't bother to go in to the interpretation of the Bible. I don't need a "did you take the orange?, well let's talk about all the apples you stole", kind of conversation. Stick with the Quran. I'm not trying to defend the Bible (nor would I).


Please refer to the parrot statement in previous post.

Okay... but I don't understand where the unique perspectives come into play when they have heard the perfect, undisputable word of God. This is the same band-aid that Christians apply. At least their books were from the memory of witnesses rather than being directly recited as Allah's words.

Well..... what did you learn in science class? You seemed to be eager to talk about science and the Quran before I brought this up. Why are you hedging now? You seemed to have to have all of the answers earlier in this thread and yet you seem to hesistate on this one. Don't worry, EVERY Muslim that I've EVER spoken to about this does the same hedging that you are. No surprise.

The quotes would be a start, and there are others that speak of this besides the one that I found (as I mentioned , most Islamic websites have stopped offering verses such as this , but they used to do so) and don't complain because you were the guy that decided to bring the Quran out anyway, not me. So lay in the bed you've made.

Since you already know about how science claims that shooting stars work (because you have a Science background) and how and why they occur (as oppposed to the misinterpretation that the eye or commom reason makes), then explain how you reconcile the difference between Science's explanation and the Quran's account of how they relate to the Jinn eavesdropping, since you wanted to raise the wonderful scientific validity of the Quran

Well....okay....that's fine. I just wish Muslims would stop writing in the brochure that ALL answers are there in the Quran. Obviously that's not entirely true.

If YOU need to answer it, and your perfect book (from Allah) can't, then I am not interested in hearing your "opinion" or best guess of Islam. That's pointless when we speak about Islam because all the knowledge that you ever needed is right there in the Quran. How could Allah cheat you with incomplete answers?? The Quran is suddenly starting to sound like everything that Muslims accuse the Bible of being when the Quran gets put into a little more scrutinity. Sorry,. I don't hate you, I just see the same old half answers and roundabout that I always see from Muslims when I ask this question about the Jinn and Shooting stars. Your behavior in the face of this question is old news to me. I AM DISAPPOINTED. I thought that with a background in Science, you would have already had a ready explanation for my question. It seems as though you have never really considered this issue. WHY NOT??? Either your Science teacher didn't tell you how shooting stars work or your Mullah or Iman (either one) never bothered to teach you about this part of the Quran. Hmmmmm. Something's wrong here.

Bumble Bee Tuna

Well, you guys certainly did a bang-up job hijacking this thread.

-B

atheist_in_foxhole

Goober

The Quran explicitly states that we are all atheists because god wills it, and there is nothing anyone can say or do to change it until god changes his mind. So god physically prevents us from converting to Islam, and then throws us in a hellish pit of fire for not converting, while all the people who he did make believers get to sit up in paradise and watch. Yes, it actually says they get to watch us suffer.

What a charming, enlightened, loving religion that is.

diana

Hi, River. It appears everyone else has moved on, but I'm still hung up on this:

Not true. If you're sitting on a huge flat rock and the sun is circling you, there will be times when it gives you no light, then a little, then a lot, then a little again, then none.

Nope.

Day and night overlap. That works with my Big Flat Rock theory just fine, thanks. No mention here of a spherical earth, either.

The earth is egg shaped? Wow. So cosmologists are still missing the boat, are they?

This is what really caught my eye on your post, River. It occurred to me that I hadn't ever seen an ostrich egg IRL. So I looked it up (although the medium is still maddeningly two-dimensional.)

So if I took that egg on the left, the one lying on its side, and turned it 90 degrees to the left, would it still look the same to me? Or would it look perfectly round?

I grant you, I may be just talking out my butt here, because I've never seen an ostrich egg up close so's I could inspect the booger. Maybe they do look like minature Earths. But I have a sneaking suspicion they just look like bigass eggs.

If it does correctly describe the shape of the Earth, I have yet to see any evidence of it.

d

haverbob

Yeah, I know. Sorry. I would have taken this private but River won't allow private messages or e-mails. I was actually trying to put this to bed quickly but most Muslims seem to have a uncanny talent for evasiveness and denial.

haverbob

Let me raise a point in addition to yours "d".

So does one wrap the cloth of the turban around one's head or does one keep the cloth stationary and spin one's head to wrap it around the head? River's point might have some validity (doubt it) if one does the latter. Instead it seems as though the cloth (Sun) moves around the head (earth). I shouldn't be too critical. It's actually not a bad explanation or guess (for a seventh century man).

DMB

Diana: Your post reminded me that I have an ostrich egg. It's not exactly the same shape as a hen's egg, but it's still egg-shaped and not earth-shaped.

haverbob

Perhaps we've applied too much Pepto Bismal and now River is constipated. Oh well, it beats verbal diarrhea. That Jinn and shooting stars stuff usually does the trick. That's my handy-dandy spray can of "Mullah Off" and it never seems to fail me. River, if you have any answers for me later (when you solve your irregularity problem) send me a private message. I don't want to soil this thread anymore.

River

I hope you were'nt purposely trying to "shoo" me away. That wouldn't be too nice. Like I said, I am a med student. I am not an astronomer. I have a Biology/Biochemistry and Psychology background. However, leading Anatomists and Embryologists (i.e Keith Moore) as well as numerous Geologists have came very impressed with the Quran's description of natural phenomena. Unfortunately you are asking me to Reconcile a Supernatural Phenomena ( Eavesdropping by Jinn) with a Natural Phenomena ( Shooting Stars). This is near impossible since the Supernatural realm is beyond the level of Science. It does not mean that oneday we will not discover the existence of Angels and Jinns via Scientific instruments. It is just that Scienctific instruments lack the precision or the quantitative dimensional parameters to define this experiment. This might be the "typical evasive Muslim " reply...but it is probably the most logical reply, considering that you are asking me to do the Impossible, atleast from a scientific perspective.

The Quran is a book of " Signs" , " ayat" . It is meant to lead man from his/her abyss to perfection ("insan kamil") for any that reflect. The Quran has everything [Relevant ]for mankind. There are some Esoteric/Exoteric verses in the Quran.

So, Does the Quran have Aliens and Extraterrestrial life forms? How is this Relevant to the life of Humanity? To its credit it is the Only Scripture that mentions Worlds and Universes in plurality...thus it leaves the option open. If Aliens were to do war with mankind, surely it would have been mentioned ........in much detail