Magus55

huh? I did tell you - 14 million Jews, possibly as much as 25% of those Jews believe in Jesus Christ as the Messiah.

winstonjen

Sorry. I missed that in your post. So about 3-4 million are Messianic? Do you have a link for that evidence?

Magus55

Go to adherents.com, search for Messianic Judaism. It doesn't say 3-4 million, it says over a million in 1998, while significantly increasing - so im guessing its in the 3-4 million range by now. Even if it stayed at 1 million, 1 out of 14 Jews is a huge huge amount compared to agnawsticks 3-1000th of 1% number.

EstherRose

I have to admit to a little resentment at you calling me intellectually dishonest.

There isn't anything in this world I can do to alter God's plan. What God wills, will happen. If God wants peace or not, it will happen according to what He wants. I can't begin to fully comprehend His plans.

When Judas betrayed Jesus in the Garden of Gethsemane, someone pulled out a sword to defend Jesus. He stopped them and said that He could easily call more than 12 legions of angels for His defense. I have no need to interfer with the middle east peace process. It will be done according to His will. All I can do is live out my life here according to the dictates of my conscience, according to the guidelines of the bible. To try to manipulate something like the middle east crisis no matter how well or badly intended seems blasphemous to me.

Celsus

Please stay on topic, discussing Revelations. If you wish to discuss modern Jewish messianism, God's will or other side issues, please start a new thread in the appropriate forum.

Joel
BC&H Moderator

Mageth

To that end, I started a thread Messianic Jews - how many? in GRD.

bleubird

I have a big problem with time.1000 years as one day.
What is time to this transidental being?And why would he play with this third rock in this vast universe?
bleubird

mike_decock

I think it's always a weak argument when people pull out the 1 day is like a 1000 years card. Even if it were true, it would show poor authorship because it fails to consider the intended audience and causes nothing but confusion.

Hey, using that reasoning, we can expect Jesus to rise from the grave in about 1,000 years, right?

-Mike...

Spaz

I thought I had this argument with Magus before, and I also thought he got it, but he still says it. 1,000 years to 1 day is not a direct comparison! It was just said to try to illuminate that a being such as god has no concept of time. Which would make more sense than 1,000 years=1 day because that's just dumb, I'd like to see the math behind that...

CJD

Re: Dispensationalism

For political reasons alone (not to mention the violence done to the sacred texts), dispensationalism smacking Tim LaHaye's Left Behind is the bane of modern Christianity.

But as far as the Zoroastian shicatta is concerned, Mageth, you'll have to do better than that, considering the mere existence of something similar does not necessarily entail primacy or dependency. From an Xian perspective, the Zoroastians merely touched upon the primary archetype found within the ancient stories of the Israelites and fleshed-out in the writings of the NT. In other words, your assertion is bass ackwards and does not follow. Please refresh my memory, what pre-Christian document was it that includes a "redeemer-myth"?

Also, whichever way priority is determined, how does that affect the faith-claims of the biblical text? Granting that early Xianity had points of contact with Stoicism, mystery cults, etc., why are those contacts not seen as the early Xian's attempt to redefine terms and categories to fit the gospel message? Do you have a plausible reason for assuming otherwise? Whatever its dependence or unoriginality re: ideas and practice, early Christianity as a total worldview differed dramatically from the aforementioned religions/philosophies. It's the arrangement of the whole story that is original to Christianity, not the context within which that story was framed.

Regards,

CJD