Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Oxidizing Material · 09-07-2002, 06:37 PM

Quote:

Where was God?

God was there, in the midst of the evil and carnage, God was there. The other night on the History Channel they said 50,000 people worked in the WTC and on any given day there could be 200,000 people in the buildings. That day, was a voting day and many people were late for work. Some had gotten sick. Business was not as usual that horrible day, otherwise the loss of life would have been greater.

Someone gave an order to evacuate, but to this day, the History Channel reported no one knows who gave that order. Was it God? Did He use some unknown person to give that order? Did He give the order Himself?

Where was God? The fact the buildings stayed up as long as they did gives a tribute to the Hand of God. Why didn't they just crumble on impact? Could there have been unseen forces holding them up so many more people could escape?

Where was God? His angels were there leading all His children home to Him. He gave an added courage to the brave First Responders who went about their business trying to save lives facing their duties with bravery.

Where was God? He prevented the explosion from destroying all the escape routes and stairs so people could evacuate.

Where was God? He gave Todd Beamer and the others on Flight 93 the courage to make a difference and be heros when they knew they would die and they changed the course of that jetliner.

Where was God? Answering prayers offered in my living room for protection of our President, the White House, and Air Force One as Todd Beamers flight flew directly over our house headed back towards Pennsylvania and Washington DC.

Where was God? He was reflected in the hearts of all who gave so selflessly to provide sandwiches, coffee, cold drinks, ice water, a massage, a smile, a thank you to all the Rescue Workers who worked around the clock to find survivors in the crumbled twisted fiery ruins.

Where was God? He was reflected in the wail of bagpipes playing Amazing Grace as heros were memorialized and He gave comfort and strength to a Nation when grief was too much to bear.

Could God have prevented the tragedy of 09/11? Sure. God can always choose to step in and intervene in the affairs of men on this planet. Sometimes He chooses not to. After all, He gave mankind liberty to choose for good or for evil. He gave us a free will.

But a better question would be, How many times has God prevented tragedies such as 09/11 or greater from occurring to this Nation that we don't even know about and won't know about this side of Heaven?

Where was God? He was present in so many ways and we will never know all the answers or even know the right questions concerning His greatness and Love and Mercy this side of Heaven.

But this I know. I know the future is in God's hands. And am secure in knowing in whom I have believed and that there is nothing that can separate me from the love of God. And if He sees each sparrow that falls, He knew about this day, 09/11/01 long before it ever happened. God was not caught off guard. He was not surprised.

Should I laugh or should I cry?

Perchance · 09-07-2002, 07:16 PM

Gnash your teeth.

This is comfort for those who believe in such things. But that doesn't mean that everyone has to believe in it or treat it with respect.

I personally find it disgusting and horrifying- and hope I would even if I thought the Christian God existed. He knew about it and didn't stop it? He knew about it, and didn't act to make sure that there was some warning?

He's somehow proven to exist and care because MORE people didn't die? I have heard figure after figure on the people who were supposed to be there and weren't. It just keeps getting inflated.

Even though it irritates me to no end, though, I do have a kind of philosophical question:

Is there ANYONE here who was once a theist, or is a theist now, who can tell me why anyone takes comfort in this kind of thing, or spreads it? Does it really help people to think that God was involved in any way with Sept. 11th?

Why does this idea survive?

-Perchance.

Queen of Swords · 09-07-2002, 07:26 PM

Why not just write up another one?

Quote:

Where was God when the Holocaust happened?

He was holding the hands of naked, starving people as they dug their own graves. He was right there in the gas chambers of Auschwitz, staying with small children until the end. Etc, etc.

That, if anything, is more sickening than the original, and if anyone sends me one of those 9/11 spam emails, they'll get that in reply.

Albion · 09-07-2002, 07:26 PM

When they have to do that much rationalising, I'd say their foundations were crumbling. I mean, if the best they can come up with is that God has probably averted lots of disasters that we don't know about, what can you say? I mean, was he sleeping late on Sept 11 or something and this one slipped by him?

Typical sort of stuff - thank God for the fact that the buildings didn't fall down immediately while forgetting to mention the architect who designed them that way. This mindset is just downright uncharitable.

GunnerJ · 09-07-2002, 07:27 PM

I always wonder, if this god fellow is so great, why his believers always have to apologize for him like some sort of drunkard unlce who breaks things and swears when he's pissed.

BigBlue2 · 09-07-2002, 07:30 PM

Quote:

posted by Oxidising Material:
Should I laugh or should I cry?

Cry. It's nothing to laugh about.

Quote:

God was there, in the midst of the evil and carnage, God was there. The other night on the History Channel they said 50,000 people worked in the WTC and on any given day there could be 200,000 people in the buildings. That day, was a voting day and many people were late for work. Some had gotten sick. Business was not as usual that horrible day, otherwise the loss of life would have been greater.

The reason for the comparably low death toll was bad timing on the terrorists part (if they had struck a few hours later, the toll would have been much higher), the fact that the Towers held up for a while enabling evacuations, and the fact that the planes hit fairly high up, enabling most people on the lower floors to get out.

Quote:

Someone gave an order to evacuate, but to this day, the History Channel reported no one knows who gave that order. Was it God? Did He use some unknown person to give that order? Did He give the order Himself?

The order was probably given by a fire chief or police chief who was properly trained in this field and knew what he was doing.

Quote:

Where was God? The fact the buildings stayed up as long as they did gives a tribute to the Hand of God. Why didn't they just crumble on impact? Could there have been unseen forces holding them up so many more people could escape?

It was the Towers architecture and design that held them up for that long. They only collapsed when the trusses connecting the exterior skeleton with the interior supports broke, which resulted in the floors pancaking on top of each other.

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Where was God? His angels were there leading all His children home to Him.

Nice of him. Not that "His children" had a say in the matter. And does this include the non-Christians that died? Or are they in hell now?

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He gave an added courage to the brave First Responders who went about their business trying to save lives facing their duties with bravery.

That courage and sense of duty was already there. Don't cheapen it with superstitious claptrap.

Quote:

Where was God? He prevented the explosion from destroying all the escape routes and stairs so people could evacuate.

This totally ignores the fact that only 16 people escaped from the south Tower on floors above where the plane hit and none from the north tower who were on floors above the impact. There was no escape.

Quote:

Where was God? He gave Todd Beamer and the others on Flight 93 the courage to make a difference and be heros when they knew they would die and they changed the course of that jetliner.

It's called survival instinct. Todd Beamer and the others knew they were going to die if they did nothing. They took the action that they did in order to stay alive. Unfortunately, they were unsuccessful. Again, don't cheapen their courage and determination by spouting religious nonsense.

Quote:

Where was God? Answering prayers offered in my living room for protection of our President, the White House, and Air Force One as Todd Beamers flight flew directly over our house headed back towards Pennsylvania and Washington DC.

I'm sure that with all the drama going on, God had better things to do than listen to an imbecile like yourself.

Quote:

Where was God? He was reflected in the hearts of all who gave so selflessly to provide sandwiches, coffee, cold drinks, ice water, a massage, a smile, a thank you to all the Rescue Workers who worked around the clock to find survivors in the crumbled twisted fiery ruins.

It is human nature to pull together in the face of a crisis like this. It happens in non-Christian countries as well. God had nothing to do with it.

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He gave comfort and strength to a Nation when grief was too much to bear.

Rudy Giuliani is God? I'm sure that's news to him.

Quote:

Could God have prevented the tragedy of 09/11? Sure. God can always choose to step in and intervene in the affairs of men on this planet. Sometimes He chooses not to.

This just shows what a sadistic prick your deity really is.

Quote:

After all, He gave mankind liberty to choose for good or for evil. He gave us a free will.

It's too bad he didn't make an exception for the hijackers.

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But a better question would be, How many times has God prevented tragedies such as 09/11 or greater from occurring to this Nation that we don't even know about and won't know about this side of Heaven?

Don't know and don't care. He didn't stop this one.

Quote:

He knew about this day, 09/11/01 long before it ever happened. God was not caught off guard. He was not surprised.

Then he did a piss-poor job in preventing this crime. I hope he never has the gall to apply for a firefighters job.

john_v_h · 09-07-2002, 07:33 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Perchance:
<strong>
Why does this idea survive?
</strong>

Because it is a powerful way to bolster faith and win converts. Irony has a persuasive emotional impact, even when it is manufactured.

GunnerJ · 09-07-2002, 07:38 PM

Quote:

But a better question would be, How many times has God prevented tragedies such as 09/11 or greater from occurring to this Nation that we don't even know about and won't know about this side of Heaven?

No caption needed.

Perchance · 09-07-2002, 07:40 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by john_v_h:
<strong>

Because it is a powerful way to bolster faith and win converts. Irony has a persuasive emotional impact, even when it is manufactured.</strong>

Thanks for the answer, john.

But why is it so important to win converts, especially this way? I know the "it's a divinely inspired commandment" reason and the "these people might go to hell if you don't" reason, but surely they could use ways that don't pull so on the emotions, that rely more on reasoned argument, that aren't so...

Disgusting.

-Perchance.

K · 09-07-2002, 08:00 PM

Perchance:

As a former theist, I'd have to say that people find comfort in this because tragedies like 9/11 cause people's faith to be shaken. If they can somehow use a sledgehammer to cram God into the midst of events like this, they can somehow still believe that He is watching over them. I think the fear of losing their devine protector is what inspires things like this.

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09-07-2002, 07:16 PM	#2
Perchance Veteran Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: Kentucky Posts: 1,059	Gnash your teeth. This is comfort for those who believe in such things. But that doesn't mean that everyone has to believe in it or treat it with respect. I personally find it disgusting and horrifying- and hope I would even if I thought the Christian God existed. He knew about it and didn't stop it? He knew about it, and didn't act to make sure that there was some warning? He's somehow proven to exist and care because MORE people didn't die? I have heard figure after figure on the people who were supposed to be there and weren't. It just keeps getting inflated. Even though it irritates me to no end, though, I do have a kind of philosophical question: Is there ANYONE here who was once a theist, or is a theist now, who can tell me why anyone takes comfort in this kind of thing, or spreads it? Does it really help people to think that God was involved in any way with Sept. 11th? Why does this idea survive? -Perchance.

09-07-2002, 07:26 PM	#4
Albion Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: US east coast. And www.theroyalforums.com Posts: 2,829	When they have to do that much rationalising, I'd say their foundations were crumbling. I mean, if the best they can come up with is that God has probably averted lots of disasters that we don't know about, what can you say? I mean, was he sleeping late on Sept 11 or something and this one slipped by him? Typical sort of stuff - thank God for the fact that the buildings didn't fall down immediately while forgetting to mention the architect who designed them that way. This mindset is just downright uncharitable.

09-07-2002, 07:27 PM	#5
GunnerJ Banned Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: a place where i can list whatever location i want Posts: 4,871	I always wonder, if this god fellow is so great, why his believers always have to apologize for him like some sort of drunkard unlce who breaks things and swears when he's pissed.

09-07-2002, 08:00 PM	#10
K Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Chicago Posts: 1,485	Perchance: As a former theist, I'd have to say that people find comfort in this because tragedies like 9/11 cause people's faith to be shaken. If they can somehow use a sledgehammer to cram God into the midst of events like this, they can somehow still believe that He is watching over them. I think the fear of losing their devine protector is what inspires things like this.

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