RufusAtticus

Make war not love? I guess the Discovery Institute is slowly revealing the idenity of the designer. You can't read that article without getting the impression that the DI is a conservative Christian organization. Their claims of being "neutral" to religion are clearly exposed by that article as lies.

-RvFvS

hyzer

Quote “its kind of hard, for me personally, to watch a troop of chimps playing in a zoo somewhere, and still support some of the research that chimps are used for. I dont think Ive thought that issue through as thoroughly as I should. But on the other hand, I love steaks and cheeseburgers, and Big Macs never arouse moral angst in me . . . Go figure.”

I’ve got to agree with you. I’d like to see an animal rights organization focus on the great apes (and dolphins) and actually have legislation to protect them from all abuse. As an aside, I refuse to go to zoos or traditional circuses because of the blatant abuse of animals for supposed “entertainment” reasons. On the other hand, my enjoyment of steak does not arouse moral angus in me either

ksagnostic

The most human like of the apes?

Depends on the feature you are talking about. Orangutans have ingenuity (and an average attention span that puts ours to shame) while chimps demonstrate an enormous range in personality. I can't really say too much about gorillas and bonobos. I've seen them and read about them, but my personal experience is with chimps and orangutans.

ksagnostic

Here are some websites that may interest you:

<a href="http://www.greatapeproject.org/" target="_blank">http://www.greatapeproject.org/</a>

<a href="http://www.personhood.org/" target="_blank">http://www.personhood.org/</a>

<a href="http://www.4apes.com/" target="_blank">http://www.4apes.com/</a>

<a href="http://www.primates-online.com/" target="_blank">http://www.primates-online.com/</a>

<a href="http://www.ippl.org/" target="_blank">http://www.ippl.org/</a>


For more preservation and general interest:

<a href="http://www.bonobo.org/home.html" target="_blank">http://www.bonobo.org/home.html</a>

<a href="http://www.gsu.edu/~wwwbpf/bpf/" target="_blank">http://www.gsu.edu/~wwwbpf/bpf/</a>

<a href="http://www.janegoodall.org/" target="_blank">http://www.janegoodall.org/</a>

<a href="http://www.primate.wisc.edu/pin/" target="_blank">http://www.primate.wisc.edu/pin/</a>

hyzer

Thanks!

Steven S

Interestingly, our social behaivor is probably closer to chimpanzees than bonobos. Bonobos tend to live in matriachs(sp?) and tend to use sex to pacify conflicts within a group and between rival groups. Chimps tend to be much more aggressive.

Steven S

Valentine Pontifex

That is not true. Human-Bonobo and Human-Chimp have the same difference in their DNA within experimental error.

CodeMason

What I wanna know is if there are any creationists in chimp/bonobo populations? "You think we are related by common descent to those filthy hairless humans? That is denying the Great Chimp in the Sky's loving creation of us!"

Duck!

I'm obviously not the only person who finds zoos horrible places. Give me David Attenborough on BBC over a zoo any day. I haven't been to the zoo in over 10 years and I don't intend going back. It's just so depressing to see animals sitting in cages throwing their shit at humans. It's so much more humane and educating to watch a good documentary watching lions and cheetahs and springboks in their natural habitat, even if that means watching them eating or being eaten by their natural predators.

Zoos suck, big time.


Duck!

Oolon Colluphid

Sorry, gotta disagree. Of course the sort of zoos that just have animals in cages are a Bad Thing. Bad for the animals, bad for our view of animals. But many zoos are now heavily involved in breeding programmes, conservation of habitats projects, and education. My local 'zoo', <a href="http://www.marwell.org.uk/" target="_blank">Marwell</a>, is one such.

The point being, no number of David Attenborough programmes has prepared me for the wonders of seeing a real, live, three-dimensional it's-just-over-there <a href="http://www.marwell.org.uk/feature-fossa.htm" target="_blank">fossa</a> tear at meat, watching rays 'sniff' the air, siamang gibbons howling, lemurs leap about, hippos and alligators being fed (Homosassa Springs, Fl) or manatees lazily grazing (Silver Springs, Fl). Or even -- terrible but there it was, it was the early 70s -- the feeling of awe at feeding a giraffe popcorn, its huge eyes and its soft lips and blue-grey tongue right there at arm's length, nibbling so gently. That's the magic of zoos. The magic of real life, not telly... where CGI means bloody anything could be real, so the whole thing is unreal. Would you rather look at a picture of a guinea pig, or hold one? Zoos -- good ones, that help preserve habitats, breed their animals and educate us -- are fan-bloody-tastic.

There is an article about all the roles of modern zoos in the current (19 Jan) New Scientist.

TTFN, Oolon