Freethought & Rationalism Archive

theyeti · 03-27-2003, 12:02 PM

Invocation by atheist prompts walkout in Charleston

Quote:

Several City Council members have walked out of a meeting to protest an atheist giving the invocation.

Some of the half-dozen or so Charleston City Council members who left Tuesday said their religious beliefs compelled them to leave.

But Herb Silverman, who noticed the walkout when he rose to speak, said it was rude.

"I think it's outrageous behavior," said Silverman, a College of Charleston math professor. "What would we say if the first time an African-American got up to speak at City Council, a bunch of whites walked out, or if a rabbi got up to give an invocation and a bunch of people got up to leave?"

But councilman Wendell Gilliard said the idea of an atheist giving the invocation was particularly wrong when war is going on in Iraq.

[...]

The invocation is a tradition at council meetings, and council members take turns performing it. Occasionally, council members will invite a pastor to give the invocation. In this case, Councilman Kwadjo Campbell invited Silverman to speak in his place after Silverman asked for the opportunity.

Campbell, who is not an atheist, said he felt that Silverman had a right to be heard, but that other council members had a right to leave if they wanted.

This is pretty ironic, because Gilliard and Campbell are the two biggest kooks on the city council. Gilliard has made headlines with such pro-1st amendment acts as staging a protest in front of a local porno store, and trying to use the city to shut it down. Cambell, meanwhile, who represents the most crime-addled section of the city, was once seen in an intense coversation with a man who was shortly thereafter aprehended for marijuana possesion. Campell claimed that he was just giving the guy some advice on education and self-improvement. I guess the crack dealer who once tried to hide out in his house was looking for the same sort of advice.

Anyway, I think it's cool that Silverman stood up like this. And I think it's sad that some council members walked out, but I doubt they'll gain anything from that politically. Charleston is quite liberal by South Carolina standards, which I realize isn't saying much.

Unfortunately, this article is truncated and lacks a really good quote from Silverman that appeared in the local paper today. Basically he talked about how atheists are the only group for whom it's still okay to descriminate against.

theyeti

Tabula_rasa · 03-27-2003, 12:10 PM

Quote:

from the page:
"We've got young men and young women over there fighting for our principles, based on God," he said. "I think it's about time we started standing up for something in this country."

Apparently, there are no atheists in the military. The mind boggles at the stupidity. If these people want to stand up for something, I'd suggest starting with the Constitution.

Tabula_rasa

Hayden · 03-27-2003, 12:44 PM

Are these the same people who claim "Humour us for 30 seconds" about prayer at football games?

HR

Grad Student Humanist · 03-27-2003, 01:55 PM

Great story, particularly since those of us who are secularists/atheists are so often told to stand up and show respect for the religious figure who's giving an invocation.

Guess it's a totally different story when the shoe's on the other foot.

Hypocritical Xtians, par for the course.

crazyfingers · 03-28-2003, 09:22 AM

Here is an earlier report on this and the full text of the speech.

Quote:

"What divides us is not so much our religious differences in this diverse country but the degree of commitment we have to equal freedom of conscience for all people," the invocation reads. "We are gathered today, both religious and secular members of our community, with the shared belief that we must treat our fellow human beings with respect and dignity."

Seems the Christians who left objected to that.

StrongMan · 03-28-2003, 10:11 AM

So we shouldn't treat our fellow human beings with respect and dignity?

TealVeal · 03-28-2003, 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by StrongMan
So we shouldn't treat our fellow human beings with respect and dignity?

No, only Christians, why waste time on the damned?

Grumpy · 03-28-2003, 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by crazyfingers
Seems the Christians who left objected to that.

They didn't just object to it. Councilman Robert George openly mocked it.

Quote:

"He has a right to speak, and I have a right to walk out," he said. "He can worship a chicken if he wants to, but I'm not going to be around when he does it."

Frankly, if I had been on the Charleston City Council (this is extremely hypothetical, but bear with me), I would've walked out no matter who delivered the invocation. As a protest against invocations in general. Indeed, the atheist invoker could have produced no better argument against invocations than having objectors walk out.

The state representative in Washington who walked out during a Muslim invocation was pressured (by fellow Republicans) to apologize. Will we see the same backlash against these council members?

Mageth · 03-28-2003, 01:51 PM

Seems the Christians who left objected to that.

Of course they did. The cognitive dissonance caused by hearing "we must treat our fellow human beings with respect and dignity", basically the Golden Rule, coming from an evil, hellbound, moral-less devil-worshippin' atheist's mouth must have been absolutely unbearable.

CALDONIA · 03-28-2003, 02:08 PM

What the hell, why bother talking about "treating human beings with respect and dignity?"

He should have just stood there and sung, "Onward Christian Soldiers." THAT would have pleased his audience!

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version	Search this Thread: Advanced Search

03-27-2003, 12:44 PM	#3
Hayden Senior Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: Wellington, New Zealand Posts: 712	Are these the same people who claim "Humour us for 30 seconds" about prayer at football games? HR

03-27-2003, 01:55 PM	#4
Grad Student Humanist Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Melrose, MA Posts: 961	Great story, particularly since those of us who are secularists/atheists are so often told to stand up and show respect for the religious figure who's giving an invocation. Guess it's a totally different story when the shoe's on the other foot. Hypocritical Xtians, par for the course.

03-28-2003, 10:11 AM	#6
StrongMan Regular Member Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Bumblefuck Posts: 488	So we shouldn't treat our fellow human beings with respect and dignity?

03-28-2003, 01:51 PM	#9
Mageth Contributor Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Deep in the heart of mother-lovin' Texas Posts: 29,689	Seems the Christians who left objected to that. Of course they did. The cognitive dissonance caused by hearing "we must treat our fellow human beings with respect and dignity", basically the Golden Rule, coming from an evil, hellbound, moral-less devil-worshippin' atheist's mouth must have been absolutely unbearable.

03-28-2003, 02:08 PM	#10
CALDONIA Regular Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Sunnyvale,CA Posts: 371	What the hell, why bother talking about "treating human beings with respect and dignity?" He should have just stood there and sung, "Onward Christian Soldiers." THAT would have pleased his audience!

Freethought & Rationalism Archive

The archives are read only.