Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Corwin · 01-24-2002, 03:12 PM

I'm highly skeptical of this whole situation.

So far the only references to the entire 'teaching Islam in California schools' that I've seen have all been from staunch bastions of fundamentalism. Also I have a friend who works in the California public school system who's never heard of the whole affair.

Does anybody have an unbiased link? (The only one I've seen so far is from worlddailynet.... the same good christians who brought us an editorial on how great Robert E. Lee was.... go fig...)

Seth K · 01-30-2002, 07:00 PM

This has also been an issue in my local school district recently too, thanks to all the media attention the Byron district attracted. There is a lady threatening to sue the district and the state over the use of the social studies textbook and the 7th grade curriculum. <a href="http://www.hometown.aol.com/blessedcause/" target="_blank">Here is a web page of her objections to the text.</a> She has a right to find it personally objectionable, but as an actual violation of church/state separation I'm less than impressed. <a href="http://www.blessedcause.org/" target="_blank">Also see</a>

This was recently a topic on a local radio talk show interviewing two middle school students. They didn't see what the fuss was about, and almost all the callers were for teaching about Islam and thought the lady intending to sue is overreacting.

scombrid · 01-31-2002, 08:52 AM

That lady definitely did a good job of analyzing that 7th grade social studies text through fundie colored glasses. Some of the questions that she objected to were basically the type that require understanding and synthesis of the material, such as the role playing questions. I covered such material in my christian grade school social studies classes (oh wait, maybe that contributed to my atheism..hmmmm.. Perhaps they realize that people that know too much will give up on their fairy tales).

I was less than impressed with her technique in critiquing the text. She quotes out of context in order to make the text appear biased against Christianity and biased for other religions. I doubt it was deliberate deception on her part, but was likely just a reflection of her indoctrinated paranoia. She probably actually thinks that the text's authors are part of that mysterious anti-christian conspiracy that is taking over our schools.

She sealed the deal by quoting scriptures that forbid Christians from seeking to know other Gods. She then said God would get angry for children participating in an African cultural dance because God doesn't like pagan gods and he is a jealous God. Her stating that God is a jealous God that objects to pagan dances comes two paragraphs after she proclaims him to be the most loving God, or at least more loving than the god of the Quran.

This is yet another example of the fundamentalist "bury your head in the sand" philosophy. Don't bother to learn about other faiths because it may make you question yours. You don't need to know about them anyway, god will sort things out. Those wars that started over religious and cultural differences couldn't have been avoided by knowledge, god must have willed them to happen.

Seth K · 01-31-2002, 11:16 AM

I thought it was rather telling that she objected to the assignment of building a model of a mosque. After all it's just a model. But also, it has been a requirement in CA schools for the 5th graders to build a model of a California mission (Catholic church) when covering the Spanish colonization of region. Why object to just the mosque?

Corwin · 01-31-2002, 11:53 AM

Why not study Camelot?

(It's only a model....)

(sorry someone HAD to go there...

)

ImGod · 02-01-2002, 01:55 PM

Goes to show you that nobody minds god in school as long as you think it's their god. Imagine the ACLU and fundamentalist christians on the same side regarding an issue.

[ February 01, 2002: Message edited by: ImGod ]

hezekiah jones · 02-05-2002, 10:05 AM

Anyone see the 700 Club's take on this thing yesterday? Robertson and Sekulow were having a field day. Their own evidence pretty much trashed their case, though. They were so obviously selecting quotes from the textbook to misrepresent the intent it was comical. You could read the context of the quotes right above the sentences they had highlighted. These guys are really losing their touch. You're supposed to remove the quotes completely from their context boys, not leave them where folks can read the surrounding paragraphs. Hovind could teach these chumps a thing or two.

It's just a comparative religion course, and the chapter in question happens to be about Islam. The activities are suggested activities for the kids to get a handle on what Muslims believe. Big deal. There are obviously chapters in the text about Christianity, Judaism, and Buddhism as well. I thought comparative religion courses would necessarily include analyses of the main faiths at the very least. Duh.

They included an interview of a complaining mother with her little brat, who was shown saying, "I just don't wanna learn that stuff." What a gaggle of willful ignoramuses.

[ February 05, 2002: Message edited by: hezekiahjones ]

scombrid · 02-05-2002, 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by hezekiahjones:
...You could read the context of the quotes right above the sentences they had highlighted. These guys are really losing their touch. You're supposed to remove the quotes completely from their context boys, not leave them where folks can read the surrounding paragraphs. Hovind could teach these chumps a thing or two.

[ February 05, 2002: Message edited by: hezekiahjones ]

Sadly, the drooling simps that actually watch that show for information ( "bringing you from information to understanding" is their slogan now) and send money to that show won't look beyond the highlighter. Pat in his infinite wisdumb will reveal all that needs to be known.

As for comparative religion, Pat et. al. are all for it. It's fine to compare Southern Baptists, Free Will Baptists, Episcopalians, Lutherans, Presbyterians, Pentacostal, Catholics(now that the Xtian Coalition is all inclusive), Charismatics, Adventists, (Jesus, how many friggin sects are there

), Methodists, Mennonites, Puritans, Quakers, Amish, Korean Baptists, Assembly of God, Church of Christ, and some others I'm sure; as long as their central figure is B'Jebuz.

Edited to add: Hezekiahjones, I just noticed that you're in Wisconsin. You get 700club out there? I thought we got it here because I live about 45minutes from CBN headquaters. I thought it was restricted to the southeast.

[ February 05, 2002: Message edited by: scombrid ]

stryder2112 · 02-05-2002, 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by scombrid:

Edited to add: Hezekiahjones, I just noticed that you're in Wisconsin. You get 700club out there? I thought we got it here because I live about 45minutes from CBN headquaters. I thought it was restricted to the southeast.

I'm not in Wisconsin, but 700 Club is broadcast on cable all across the US and even in Europe. Hell, you can even see 700 Club on two cable channels around here.

Stryder

hezekiah jones · 02-05-2002, 03:25 PM

Yeah, it's on what's called ABCFAM (I guess that's Family Channel), three times a day. I don't see it in the morning, and I don't see it at 10 p.m., because Jon Stewart is on, so sometimes I see it at 1 a.m. It follows one of those "8-minute ab" infomercials.

Except on Friday, when this execrable 700 Club-style MTV show called "<a href="http://www.1cubed.com/i" target="_blank">1cubed</a>" is on. It's more than even I can stand.

02-01-2002, 01:55 PM	#16
ImGod Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Nebraska Posts: 6,264	Goes to show you that nobody minds god in school as long as you think it's their god. Imagine the ACLU and fundamentalist christians on the same side regarding an issue. [ February 01, 2002: Message edited by: ImGod ]</p>

02-05-2002, 10:05 AM	#17
hezekiah jones Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: WI Posts: 4,357	Anyone see the 700 Club's take on this thing yesterday? Robertson and Sekulow were having a field day. Their own evidence pretty much trashed their case, though. They were so obviously selecting quotes from the textbook to misrepresent the intent it was comical. You could read the context of the quotes right above the sentences they had highlighted. These guys are really losing their touch. You're supposed to remove the quotes completely from their context boys, not leave them where folks can read the surrounding paragraphs. Hovind could teach these chumps a thing or two. It's just a comparative religion course, and the chapter in question happens to be about Islam. The activities are suggested activities for the kids to get a handle on what Muslims believe. Big deal. There are obviously chapters in the text about Christianity, Judaism, and Buddhism as well. I thought comparative religion courses would necessarily include analyses of the main faiths at the very least. Duh. They included an interview of a complaining mother with her little brat, who was shown saying, "I just don't wanna learn that stuff." What a gaggle of willful ignoramuses. [ February 05, 2002: Message edited by: hezekiahjones ]</p>

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01-24-2002, 03:12 PM	#11
Corwin Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 4,369	I'm highly skeptical of this whole situation. So far the only references to the entire 'teaching Islam in California schools' that I've seen have all been from staunch bastions of fundamentalism. Also I have a friend who works in the California public school system who's never heard of the whole affair. Does anybody have an unbiased link? (The only one I've seen so far is from worlddailynet.... the same good christians who brought us an editorial on how great Robert E. Lee was.... go fig...)

01-30-2002, 07:00 PM	#12
Seth K Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: SLO, CA Posts: 90	This has also been an issue in my local school district recently too, thanks to all the media attention the Byron district attracted. There is a lady threatening to sue the district and the state over the use of the social studies textbook and the 7th grade curriculum. <a href="http://www.hometown.aol.com/blessedcause/" target="_blank">Here is a web page of her objections to the text.</a> She has a right to find it personally objectionable, but as an actual violation of church/state separation I'm less than impressed. <a href="http://www.blessedcause.org/" target="_blank">Also see</a> This was recently a topic on a local radio talk show interviewing two middle school students. They didn't see what the fuss was about, and almost all the callers were for teaching about Islam and thought the lady intending to sue is overreacting.

01-31-2002, 08:52 AM	#13
scombrid Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Central Florida Posts: 2,759	That lady definitely did a good job of analyzing that 7th grade social studies text through fundie colored glasses. Some of the questions that she objected to were basically the type that require understanding and synthesis of the material, such as the role playing questions. I covered such material in my christian grade school social studies classes (oh wait, maybe that contributed to my atheism..hmmmm.. Perhaps they realize that people that know too much will give up on their fairy tales). I was less than impressed with her technique in critiquing the text. She quotes out of context in order to make the text appear biased against Christianity and biased for other religions. I doubt it was deliberate deception on her part, but was likely just a reflection of her indoctrinated paranoia. She probably actually thinks that the text's authors are part of that mysterious anti-christian conspiracy that is taking over our schools. She sealed the deal by quoting scriptures that forbid Christians from seeking to know other Gods. She then said God would get angry for children participating in an African cultural dance because God doesn't like pagan gods and he is a jealous God. Her stating that God is a jealous God that objects to pagan dances comes two paragraphs after she proclaims him to be the most loving God, or at least more loving than the god of the Quran. This is yet another example of the fundamentalist "bury your head in the sand" philosophy. Don't bother to learn about other faiths because it may make you question yours. You don't need to know about them anyway, god will sort things out. Those wars that started over religious and cultural differences couldn't have been avoided by knowledge, god must have willed them to happen.

01-31-2002, 11:16 AM	#14
Seth K Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: SLO, CA Posts: 90	I thought it was rather telling that she objected to the assignment of building a model of a mosque. After all it's just a model. But also, it has been a requirement in CA schools for the 5th graders to build a model of a California mission (Catholic church) when covering the Spanish colonization of region. Why object to just the mosque?

01-31-2002, 11:53 AM	#15
Corwin Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 4,369	Why not study Camelot? (It's only a model....) (sorry someone HAD to go there... )

02-05-2002, 03:25 PM	#20
hezekiah jones Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: WI Posts: 4,357	Yeah, it's on what's called ABCFAM (I guess that's Family Channel), three times a day. I don't see it in the morning, and I don't see it at 10 p.m., because Jon Stewart is on, so sometimes I see it at 1 a.m. It follows one of those "8-minute ab" infomercials. Except on Friday, when this execrable 700 Club-style MTV show called "<a href="http://www.1cubed.com/i" target="_blank">1cubed</a>" is on. It's more than even I can stand.

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