Volker.Doormann

"The typical skeptic is skeptical of the paranormal, other people, and is not skeptical of skepticism. The true skeptic is skeptical of the normal, himself, and of skepticism.“
Deborah Frisch

"I had supposed the skeptics to be the dispassionate voices of objectivity and reason, cleanly and completely debunking every alleged paranormal claim to come along. ... After much communication with and observation of fellow skeptics, I concluded that skeptical groups can suffer from the same irrationality, dogmatism, and "group-think" as other groups. ... Evidence that resists refutation and threatens foundational beliefs of a group may cause the group to reject, suppress, or ignore that evidence. Only when outside forces (or the occasional turncoat within a group) create enough pressure does the group finally deal with the evidence fairly, revising its core beliefs to accomodate it. In the worst case, a group may not change until the more dogmatic members have died off (Planck's principle). This behaviour has been exemplified by skeptical organizations with respect to the "Mars effect" ... While a few individuals attempt to get to the bottom of matters and press for the groups to act in accordance with their espoused principles of rationality and objectivity, they typically have been forced out of or resign from the groups in frustration."
Jim Lippard (Founder of "Phoenix Skeptics")

ps418

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Volker.Doormann

Quote:

Originally posted by ps418 hyzer has ask:" Can you prepare charts for someone who does not know their exact time of birth ?". Ask your mother. She know's the time. If not. It is filed. Thank you and Good Night.

So, you're shrinking from the challenge? Yet again? You're no fun, Volker.Doorman! Smart move on your part, though. The results of the challenge may induce massive cognitive dissonance, even in you.

Just to be clear, though, let me point out that you have ignored what Hyzer asked for. He asked:

You said it was possible. Now you're backpeddling, ducking and weaving, and refuse to demonstrate this ability. I could have predicted as much, even without the benefit of astrology.

Patrick

Baidarka

After taking careful measurements based on the charts of 12,237 persons I have arrived at the following new definitive properties for the relatively newly discovered planets.

Pluto - The itchy planet. Persons born under the influence of Pluto are liable to excessive itchiness.
Uranus - The flatulence planet. It is recommended that you should not get into an elevator with anyone born under Uranus!
Neptune - The Baldness planet. Neptune rising at birth means a chrome dome by the age of 30.
Please feel free to comment on or refute my discoveries. I am sure that this is built on a solid foundation of irrefutable crap the far surpasses Volker’s questionable planetary ascriptions.
This is only half a joke. I am quite serious that this silly list is not one bit less arbitrary then any other astrological assertions.
The very fact that Mars, the red planet, is considered the angry war planet is proof that we are dealing with a primitive superstition. Why should the presence of iron rust in the soil of Mars make it angry?
V- “That's the difference between arrogant science claims and an individual recognition. Your claim has no scientific base, it is trash. Show me, by proof, that your scientific claim is absolute true.”
Arrogance is making unsupportable statements and then accusing anyone who challenges you of arrogance.
Show us by any kind of proof that any of your ridiculous assertions have any foundation in anything what so ever.
I would like to recommend a wonderful business opportunity for anyone unscrupulous enough to take advantage of the most gullible amongst us. Since a baby can be delivered by caesarian section any time with in the 8th month of pregnancy an ambitious Astrologer could determine (for a hefty fee) the most auspicious moment and location for a birth any time within the 8th month and the parents can be assured that their child will have a most fortunate life. For example: “if your child were delivered on April 1st at 8:45 am in Toledo Ohio I can assure you that she will have of Good luck, beauty, brains and lots of money.”
Of course you will have to cover yourself by making up a list of prohibitions like “don’t ever feed this child carrots” just in case your glowing predictions don’t come true. You can always accuse the parents of allowing a carrot to get past the child lips.

Volker.Doormann

If there is no argument, than the holy area of science do collapse in theater and personal inquisition. Since when is a person an object in scientific argumentation? Joke on persons shell beat scientific arguments and provable facts I have given. This is the true religion of skepticism. A hoax.

QED

Volker

SULPHUR

When astrology first began the star patterns,etc were different to the present. however the dating of a persons astralogical typing has not changed. The calender has changed,even the months. In that case why is the birthdate so important. Can you determine with any accuracy the conjuction of the planets on april 30th 1952?

Volker.Doormann

It is not true, that first astrology was taken from fix star patterns. True is, that first there were the twelve astrological houses as of the aligned ‘location’ on earth. The marking on fix stars comes later as a ‘help’ to find the position of the zodiac. But as I have written here some days ago, this was an mistaken, because of the precession of the earth of 1° in 72 years.

The positions of the planets can be calculate as for some 5000 years in the past, the only problem is the unknown value of delta t (earth rotation change in time).
First of all Best wishes to your birth day!

I’m not sure if you mean really a conjunction aspect. (0° aspect 5°-7°). There is one conjunction on this day of Venus and Jupiter, because the angle distance is about 5°:

The ecliptically positions on this day at 12.00 UT (~GMT) are:

30.4.1952 12:00:00 UT
delta t: 30.100184 sec jd (ET) = 2434133.000348 (Julian date)

Planet ecl. long. ecl. lat. dist. speed
Sun 10 ta 4'34.7518 -0° 0' 0.0870 1.007622109 0°58'14.9213
Moon 22 cn 0' 0.9643 2°56'42.1201 0.002697054 11°52'49.2942
Mercury 13 ar 41'29.1525 -2°44'17.5479 0.789310671 0°49' 5.2166
Venus 25 ar 14'38.2674 -1°25' 1.6443 1.652206488 1°13'43.6683
Mars 10 sc 49'48.9999 0°47'33.5925 0.564426271 -0°22' 1.2625
Jupiter 0 ta 23'24.5289 -1° 1'59.5679 5.946239824 0°14'19.7457
Saturn 9 li 31'51.2347 2°41'35.2077 8.726676017 -0° 3'40.1273
Uranus 10 cn 42'49.7746 0°22'20.1338 19.273167516 0° 2' 9.9547
Neptune 19 li 48'20.3631 1°42'44.7502 29.356755664 -0° 1'31.2480
Pluto 19 le 5'30.9983 9° 4'57.5786 35.563222547 -0° 0' 0.7840

10 ta 4'34.7518 means: 10° 04 arc minutes and 34.7518 arc seconds in Taurus.

The exact position of the Moon depends on the exact time of birth! The moon runs some 12° per day.

If you think of an aspect of ‘Sun and Saturn’ there is a Quincunx aspect of about 150° and it’s symbol is that it ‘limits the forces need to realize the own individual self’, (also if there are indications for a very good condition to control, to direct and to create with more power as most of other people in your environment, {not ever with proper ethic}).

Volker

ps418

Wow. And some people think that astrology is just useless, supremely vague claptrap! Obviously, they couldn't be more wrong.

I know we've been through this about 6 times now, Volker, but who decided that such-and-such symbol/angle/planet/whatever means 'limits the forces need to realize the own individual self,' and why?

Also, I was wondering, don't you ever get frustrated with those flakey astrology columns that appear in newspapers? Don't you think they give legimate astrological scientists like yourself a bad reputation?

Patrick

ps418

I dunno. But how else do you explain the consistently hostile action of Martians against earthlings!



One possibility is that the iron rust builds up in the temporal lobes of Martians, causing their angry behavior, as explained by Dr Brosnan at last years symposium on Astrology and Martian Biology:



Patrick

Wyz_sub10

What scientific claim are you referring to?

In any case, you ommitted the first sentence of my comments you quoted. Namely, that an interpretation made by the individual defeats the purpose.

The interesting thing about my challenge to you is that it is open-ended - developing a way to demonstrate the science you say is associated with astrology.

You seem to be unwilling to provide a test that will validate correlation between astrology and personality...or whatever. Really, choose whatever you like.

Why do you refuse the chance to demonstrate your discipline?

You must be the only "scientist" in the world that has no interest in demonstrating what they do. Usually, we can't keep the biologist, chemists, physicists, etc. around here quiet about experiements in their fields.

Baidarka

Volker

Why is it that you always take everything so personally? I believe that astrology is a pseudo science. You have not offered any evidence that it is not. You have not offered us any explanation as to what mechanism might be behind astrology.

“9. If astrological influence is carried by an unknown force, why is it independent of distance? All the long-range forces we know in the universe get weaker as objects get farther apart.

V - If you do not know from a force, it is senseless to ask for its independence of distance. That all physical long-range forces are geting weaker as objects get farther apart is not true in every case. Each mass is a gravitational lense, that can focos EM waves and gravitaional waves with an effect, that can increase with distance.”
You have suggested that distance is irrelevant in astrology (this couldn’t be caused by the ancients’ ignorance of planetary distances) and that astrological energy might be focused on the earth by planetary lenses (???) Why are the planets focusing their astro lenses on the earth? What kind of flat Earth, geo-centric nonsense is this? You claim that your version of astrology is non predictive but that it is useful for character analysis and after earth quake confirmation.
Like Nostradamus and the Bible code we can use Astrology to confirm what we already know. We can confirm what has happened but we can’t predict anything.
In Gabriel Garcia Marquez’s “One Hundred Years of Solitude” a memory robbing disease hits the village so the fortune teller starts divining people’s pasts.
Finally (this should put the final nail in the coffin of Astrology) if distance is not an issue the distant stars and their planets and moons should be as relevant as neighboring planets so the multitude of heavenly bodies should create such a cacophony of astrological noise as to render the subject meaningless.