jenn

I didn't have a problem for one, and if I did, I would not try to slove it on this thread. I didn't take your words as humor, I took it as you were trying to be a smart ass.Maybe you need exceptance or something, not real sure, because I do not know you.
Logic and reasoning about a God or not a God is going to be different and will always be debatable until someone proves otherwise. I love a debate until someone gets personal and decides to tell me how to run my life.When this happens the debate is over as far as I am concerned.

Samhain

jenn:

Your original post:
<snip> "Yes, my kids are beautiful and I am grateful that I can experience love. What is loving a person so deeply and not being able to know that you will be with them forever!!!" </snip>

My reply:
<snip> "Savor the moments, live every second of your life to its fullest potential and do not chase the false illusions that will waste your time and close your mind." </snip>

Now, while that part of your original post was not properly phrased as a question (as it did not end with a question mark <?>, I addressed it as such, because the phrase itself poses a question, regardless of the punctuation.

Well, actually, sarcasm is an accepted form of humour

It is actually acceptance. And if you are not sure, then I'd suggest not making any kind of hasty and unwarranted assumptions about my character.

Well, the problem with the ongoing debate, as I see it, is the theist's refusal to accept the facts and coincide with reason, logic and science (as a norm, anyway; note that I am not making any accusations as to your character, just a general personal perception of the norm of theists).

I offered a suggestion. I've repeated that at least twice, now it's been at least three times. I never said "you need to do this". You posed a question, I posed a solution. I did not expect you to follow my suggestion on my word alone, nor would I want you to. So how about you stop with these ridiculous accusations, as they are really getting you nowhere.

Perhaps you'd like to practice what you preach? I haven't gotten personal so far, you however have done so at least two times. I have not made any judgements on your character, I have posed solutions to problems of theism, not your personal problem with theism.

[ June 13, 2002: Message edited by: Samhain ]</p>

St. Robert

Does the secularist trust man's ability to govern the world?

Samhain

LOL, that seems a silly question. While we may not trust man's ability to govern the world per se, theist and atheist alike defer to man to govern the world. That's part of free-will, is it not? Regardless of what you may think, the days of the OT are well gone. Man is the only being governing the world, and neither god nor afterlife (as posed by the theists) has anything to do with that if free-will has been granted. "God" obviously is not a vengeful tyrant (at least not anymore ), and whether we like it or not we have to put at least some amount of trust in man to govern the world, theist and atheist alike, because it's obvious that "God" isn't doing a damn thing.

jenn

Samhain,
Thanks for doing a spell check.I did not ask you for advice on my kids and the hereafter.
Sarcasm...call it what you like. Once someone has considered me a "cult"(your humor)I find it hard to be nice and peachy to conversate with them.Sorry!
If I had all the knowledge in the world, I might know something.As far as I am concerned, I am limited on knowledge and so are you.
Does it hurt to say, I do not know? That is a question.I will say that I do not know if there is a God or not, can you say the same? Do you want to argue against the fact that you do not know but yet headstong on the belief that there is positively no such thing as a God..come on..when does it end. NO ONE HAS PHYSICAL PROOF...PERIOD.All we know is how we perceive the world through our senses.Everyone perceives differently.Most of what you are saying to me sounds like this..wonk, wonk, wonk , (Charlie Brown).That is humor??

Samhain

jenn:

My pleasure.

I didn't give any on your kids. If you didn't ask for any advice, I'd suggest not forming phrases in the form of a question to be answered next time, that might clear up any confusion.

I'd suggest you read up on <a href="http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/theism/wager.html" target="_blank">Pascal's Wager</a> if you didn't get the joke.

I have no illusions that I am not. What's your point?

No, it really doesn't bother me that much. I've made no positive assertions regarding our existence or how we came into being. I have not tried to complicate my existence by doing so. As far as that is concerned "I don't know" is what I give as an answer. I'd suggest you not get angry at me for challenging your claims that just because we cannot disprove something can make it any more likely. The probability of a god existing (at least in any form as I would establish such a being as being defined as a "god") is slim, extremely slim.

While there is no "god" that I have belief in, I do not discount the possibility of the existence of such a being, but assert that it is highly improbable if we are to coincide with the laws of nature, science and logic.

I've made no such assertions. I do not discount the possibility, but then again, you cannot discount the possibility of anything happening. There is little that is 100% certain or that does not have an exception. We are limited to perhaps only being 99.9% certain because of the human factor and limits and constraints on our knowledge. While I cannot disprove the existence of all gods I can demonstrate how such definitions of "gods" are logically fallicious, and thus cannot be true if we are to believe in what we know of "reality".

Yes, but if we do not wish to fall into an argument for solipsism, then we must accept that there is objectivity based upon our universal perception, and thus, that argument can be torn apart quite nicely.

Yes, well...

[ June 13, 2002: Message edited by: Samhain ]</p>

John Page

He probably distrusts god's! But then, god is man's creation, so no wonder.

Cheers, John

jenn

Samhain,
Okay, whatever. <img src="graemlins/notworthy.gif" border="0" alt="[Not Worthy]" />

St. Robert

Samhain,

Is the existence of God an illogical notion in your view? If so, why?

Samhain

It depends. What "God" are you talking about, how how do you define that "God"? If you wish to define your cat as "God" I can hardly argue with you, but I myself would not define your cat as such. It all comes down to how one wishes to conceptualize a god.