Jesse

ps418:
the effects of rape can be determined epirically, by psychological assessments of rape victims.

Volker:
Muhammad also has determined empirically psychological assessments, which was later written in the Quran.

I'm sure, you do fight for this 'science'.

What did Muhammed determine? Anyway, the effects of rape can be verified by more scientific forms of testing than mere anecdotal evidence, like large-scale studies of rape victims vs. women who have not been raped, which try to control for other variables and whose results are analyzed using statistical methods. My understanding is that astrology has been subjected to this form of scientific testing, with the result that no correlation between planet positions and things like personality or life history were found.

Autonemesis

I disagree that squares are significant. Only if there are no trines, oppositions or conjunctions would I consider any squares that may exist in the chart, and then only if it involved major planets. Pluto and Mercury square? Who gives a shit? The subject may stub a toe or win a Quick Pick, but nothing of any consequence can be discerned from squares. Nuances, little things, maybe. But nothing important to the character, especially if there is a trine or a Grand Trine present.

Volker.Doormann

The laws of Islam.
It is interesting to see, how here is replied to arguments. There is no prove given, that science can measure hurt souls, but the psychological effect of the laws of islam to the souls of many woman is 'anyway'. This is not a scientific discussion, it is a political discussion.
Where is the proof? What is the effect? On what? On a soul? If one argue, that it is full in the range of nature to be raped, how would you argue against this without to prove, that ethic is a part of nature? No Sir. I don't buy your assertion in a scientific discussion forum.
I have read it more then ten times. - No comment.
That's correct for the statistical significance of that works. But there is an evidence recognized by individuals, they acknowledge individual astrologic interpretations.

If natural science is not able to perceive this reality, than it is a problem of natural science, but not of astrology. Natural science never has shown, that there is an ethic. From this, natural science is not competent in the spiritual order of nature. The ethical claims of science are not better than the claims of religions; both is based on incompetence and on social power to suppress other forms of understandings. Each uneducated child can interpret the truth in music, or the truth of injustice by inner knowledge - science and religions not.

Volker

Volker.Doormann

No. It is you, who suggest this thesis as science. But it is still an unproved idea of no meaning. Science needs proves. It is you, not me who is talking about predictions. It is you who did make predictions: "Include as many or as few celestial bodies as you want, and the predictive success of astrology will still suck." It is your hokus pokus, not mine.

Yes or yes?

Volker

Volker.Doormann

Me. But I think, this drives into a subdiscussion of astrology internals. It’s not may aim to do this here.

It’s not only my experiences since 40 years, that geocentric planetary square aspects on the ecliptic are significant for the learning by painful experiences.
It may your experience, it is not mine, and I have never heard such assertion before. I have studied especially birth charts containing much squares (>6), because of its significance for the capability of the person to handle problems in life. Trines make people spiritual asleep, because they are thinking, they are privileged by nature. Only painful hurting squares give persons homework in life to learn the truth behind the surface of the self and - not to forget - the needed force for this job.

Pluto square Mercury? I do interpret this astrological aspect as: “You have a manipulational aspect in communication with others.” (176 ME QU PL) doormann.org/planethz.htm.

Do you have this aspect in your chart?

Volker

ps418

Volker,

Please quit evading Baidarka's simple question: how do you determine that Pluto is a symbol of transformation rather than, say, stability, or conscientiousness, or whatever? If you do not give a straight answer in your next post, I will have to conclude that you have no answer.

Patrick

Volker.Doormann

It is a widey mistaken thinking, that I Volker Doormann personally have determined that Pluto is a symbol of transformation. Astrology is not created by persons, as numbers are not created by persons. Who owns the seven? A Millionaire in Japan? No. Astrology is a science, which studies the the synchronities of planetary movement and the stamps of characters of birthes on a defined location on the surface of the earth. You want know somthing about
Pluto & Transformation ? Read it.
I think it is not of great intelligence to think, that thruth could be found in persons. Science has shown, that the truth of nature depends not on persons or the assertions of persons. It was not Kepler, who was the problem; it was the truth about the algorithm of the planetary movement, that must be acknowledged. Blame nature not persons.

Volker

ps418

Read what? A gob of naive articles written by astrology buffs which simply assume, like you, that Pluto 'represents' transformation? That's blatantly question-begging.

You have failed the test miserably. I now conclude that you have no answer. Have fun with your charts.

Patrick

PS-Since I'm charitable, I'll give you another chance to convince me of the validity of astrology. My birthday is March 5, 1974. What can you tell me about me? What advice can you give me?

Autonemesis

No, I picked it out of thin air. My chart has a Grand Trine in the water signs: Jupiter in Pisces, Venus in Scorpius and the Moon in Cancer. The Sun is in Sagittarius, which is also the Rising sign. Those are the major features of my chart.

Volker.Doormann

It’s your decision to ignore that, for what you have asked.
I can tell you that your name is Patrick. I can tell you, that ‘You can cut abrupt human relationships, without to hear the other out’, because of your Square of Moon and Uranus while birth. This interpretation is also to find on my page doormann.org/planethz.htm and reads in German: “104 MO QU UR Du kannst Beziehungen schroff abbrechen ohne den anderen anzuhören.”

Volker: (a lot of stuff) “Read it.”

Patrick: “ Read what? … I now conclude that you have no answer. Have fun with … ”

QED

I have no advice to you.

Volker