Satan Oscillate My Metallic Sonatas

Philosoft,
More accurately...

IF God exists...
THEN he desires that we seek a relationship with him.


Again...this is not to say we must first assume God exists. It is to say that we should want to have a relationship with God if he existed. This desire should encourage us to seek.

Thoughts and comments welcomed,


Satan Oscillate My Metallic Sonatas

Satan Oscillate My Metallic Sonatas

Philosoft,
This is more indicative that you can't take your word for it.


If you searched...could you trust your thoughts and feelings?


Satan Oscillate My Metallic Sonatas

Apikorus

Supposing for the sake of argument that a God entity exists, why should this God desire us to seek a relationship with him?

If I might proffer an analogy: A human who owns a dog might desire a relationship with the dog. But that same person might not desire a relationship with his fish. He might just like to count them and look at them every once in a while. Perhaps on some other planet God has created a race of beings which are as superior to humans as dogs are to fish.

Philosoft

No difference. Either way, I'm expected to "seek a relationship" with an idea. Once I decide that idea is based in reality, have I made my decision with God's help, or am I just self-confirming? No, this can't be right. I'm sure God can see, along with the rest of us, how utterly silly this line of reasoning is.

<strong> I simply cannot make sense of the idea that I am to "want to have a relationship" with something I do not yet believe exists. The very act presumes I have an idea about what God wants in the first place. How do I know how to seek without presuming I know something about the motives of the thing being sought?

Sabine Grant

I must agree with SOMMS that our mind set can determine the way we wish to perceive other people. If we are predisposed to give the benefit of the doubt and look for the "silver lining", no doubt that we will accept that person's individuality while nurturing positive thoughts.

We tend to lack objectivity when we feel threatened by someone'else different outlook on things. If we are challenged to change, for example, we may try to find fault with the challenging party to avoid giving up our dearest ways of dealing with things.... and people.

IMO pride can prevent us from seeking what is good about someone else.

One important concept in the acceptance of God is the character of humility. One is to be willing to abandon self centerdness, self dependency, to be a "new man". It implicates willingness to change and be shaped by the same God. IMO, if God reveals himself to a person who cannot or is not ready to take those steps, God is then perceived as a " pain in the neck, a dictator,a monster etc..." Somehow many conversions occur as the person is undergoing thru difficult times and struggles. The brokenness which results from sufferings seem to prepare a person to that level of humility.

I am only trying to analyze whether or not our attitudes can affect our acceptance or rejection of the concept of the Christian God. The more I think about it, the more I think attitudes can play a part.

Biff the unclean

I must agree with SOMMS that our mind set can determine the way we wish to perceive other people.
How we wish to perceive people…not IF we perceive them. We can't make people disappear. We might like them or not depending on our attitude. Whether they exist or not is totally independent of our attitude.

If we are predisposed to give the benefit of the doubt and look for the "silver lining", no doubt that we will accept that person's individuality while nurturing positive thoughts.
Or as Jesus put it "You suffer fools gladly and think yourself wise."

We tend to lack objectivity when we feel threatened by someone'else different outlook on things.
You cannot claim that you are viewing things objectively when you cannot produce the OBJECT you claim to view.

If we are challenged to change, for example, we may try to find fault with the challenging party to avoid giving up our dearest ways of dealing with things.... and people.
I challenge you to view life as it is.

IMO pride can prevent us from seeking what is good about someone else.
IMO Xian arrogance is what we are dealing with here.

One important concept in the acceptance of God is the character of humility.
Let me be the one who says it. Humility is bullshit. You are humbling yourself in front of a fantasy. That's the mind set of a slave not a man.

It implicates willingness to change and be shaped by the same God.
What God? You haven't presented any Gods here. All there is is you and your story. No Gods, just a story that you can't even back up.

IMO, if God reveals himself to a person who cannot or is not ready to take those steps, God is then perceived as a " pain in the neck, a dictator,a monster etc..."
What is this "reveal" crap? You don't actually have any God and you know it. Why do Xians insist on their own vocabularies. If I have the right attitude will my missing sunglasses REVEAL themselves?

Somehow many conversions occur as the person is undergoing thru difficult times and struggles. The brokenness which results from sufferings seem to prepare a person to that level of humility.
If you believe this line of crap I've got a bridge in Brooklyn you might be interested in buying. The only thing you are describing is ministers and priests taking advantage of somebody when they are down and easy prey to brain washing.
Christianity glorifies human suffering and promotes subservience. This is what brought us a thousand years of "Dark Ages" when most of Europe were serfs, a form of slave. It is disgusting and should be wiped off the face of the Earth.

rdalin

Thanks, Philosoft. I read through the entire thread waiting for someone to point this out - it seemed pretty obvious to me - so I finally decided to throw my two cents in.

rdalin

Here's what I was replying to, from your original post:

"What if ones revelation of God is dependent upon their attitude toward God?"

I can only assume that one's 'attitude toward God' translates to either believing or disbelieving in God's existence rather than, say, liking or disliking.

Here's the theological definition I found for revelation: 'A manifestation of divine will or truth.' On this basis, I'm pretty sure that disbelievers aren't going to have one, and believers are.

I think my summary is accurate.

edited for clarity

[ November 12, 2002: Message edited by: rdalin ]</p>

MotGeek

Alright, I'm sure it has been said in the last ten pages, but it's time for me to try. As my sociology professor puts it, it is a matter of defining the situation. By using belief-specific vocabulary, one can cocoon oneself in a world made up entirely of belief-specific concepts. It is not a negative thing, always, simply how one person justifies his/her existence. How they wish to perceive it is due to indoctrination and propaganda.
See, by my using negative words like indoctrination and propaganda, I have used my own vocabulary to describe another's definition of the situation. In sociology it is akin to ethnocentrism, which is making value judgements/statements about another culture based on judgements/statements from your own culture.
It is impossible to wonder if one can be close minded to the idea of "god", because people are also close minded to idea of "not god". If a Christian were open to there not being a god, then they wouldn't really be Christian, having not followed a basic tenet of their religion, which is to have faith. To expect, say, me -an atheist- , to be open to the idea of a god would be expecting me to change entirely my definition of the situation. Why would I do that, happy in my world created of logic and reason? Just as religious people are happy in the world of their gods, so too am I, happy in my world. It is not I who has the burden of proof.

I realize that this is rambling and not quite all together, but hopefully the reader will see through it and see what I'm getting at. As this is my first time posting, I eagerly await being torn a new one

NFLP

Satan Oscillate My Metallic Sonatas,

Consider this,

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Thoughts and comments welcomed,

NFLP