Clara Listensprechen

Hm. I thought this was self-evident in what I've already written. Put more blatantly, it appears that Mohammed had an agenda of self-benefit while proclaiming Allah had directed him in the actions he took that were to his self-benefit. I'll grant that when he started out from camelherd to seeking divine answers, his quest was honest enough, and his complaints about his Jewish tribe which claimed to be Abraham-decended (and therefore inbred?) had fallen to such "low" levels of idolatry. Beginning with his first marriage, having also converted his first wife, he managed his path to Allah as parallel to his path to his worldly enrichment.

It's as secular as it gets.

hinduwoman

Political and worldy power is secular. But Muhammad also suffered from hallucinations in which Gabriel came to him. so far as I can see, his faith was genuine --- of course Allah had a strange propensity giving him whatever he wanted!!

Now if only I had that kind of relationship with God..

Clara Listensprechen

Ya, we should all be so fortunate, ha. :notworthy

Just reading the Quran, one cannot help but feel that Mohammed's faith was genuine. I'm convinced that this was the case in the beginning, when he realized his tribe was turning the Kaaba into a tourist trap for believers and idol woshippers alike. Definitely a secular practice, to turn a landmark into a tourist trap especiallywhen it's located in a popular trade crossroute. Mohammed had a major problem with that, and I can see the genuine faith at that point.

Abu Bekr stepping in and turning the whole thing into a battle for Mecca is a camel of a different color, however. I have it here that while his first convert was his first wife, his second was his adopted son/son-in-law/cousin, Ali, who later felt that his faith should have stood him good stead in carrying on Islam's torch when Mohammed died.

Not only did it not happen that way, but he was murdered as was Calif Othman before him, leaving Abu Bekr and following Bekr, Bekr's general, to succeed as the first Califs. Whatever the purported reasons for marrying Aisha, Abu Bekr's daughter, might have been declared, the obvious secular benefit from this was clearly politicomilitary power. Bekr and Aisha were at the bottom of many an intrigue; Aisha being rumored to be at the bottom of rabblerousing already discontented Egyptians to rise against the doddering old Calif Othman, on the occasion of the latter's murder.

What I also have on record here is that an individual Nestorian monk in Basra got excommunicated on the charge that he helped Mohammed write the Quran. Might have gone by the name of Gabriel, but the name I have here is Bahira Sergius, aka Felix. Not a stranger to aliases, by the looks of it.

Radorth

Peter didn't seem to notice, based on some of his comments. He must have been pretty naive, eh?

Rad

Clara Listensprechen

You've read his comments that are part of the Gnostic Texts? Do tell--what do you think they say?