Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Shadowy Man · 03-08-2003, 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Eric Starnes

5. I can finally be accepted as a "true" american.

This one scares the crap out of me.

I guess I'll just have to keep my eyes peeled for those Homeland Security types. Hopefully they don't take me away for not being a "true" American.

hezekiah jones · 03-08-2003, 04:27 PM

This has to be a joke.

Originally posted by Eric Starnes
Christianity: Benefits
8. Satisfaction of knowing bad people will burn in hell.

I mean, come on.

Eric Starnes · 03-08-2003, 04:27 PM

Quote:

Hey, I'm a Christian going through exactly what you have explained.

Im sorry, hope you come out of it alright.

Quote:

But say you really live in hope of that afterlife and found none (in my opinion much more probable than the wishful-thinking heaven), you just wasted your entire life in believing falsehood. Do you really want it so?

Sure, when i am dead i am worm food. However, belief in an after life would solve many of my current problems and allow me to live a relatively good life. How can i waste something that is ultimately meaningless any way?

Quote:

I'm assuming you do *not* believe in Jesus Christ, a required "cost" for getting into Heaven, or you wouldn't be considering it in such a capitalist way

No, i dont believe right now and i am not sure if i *can* believe it. The question i am concidering is: should i try?

Quote:

I don't think you'll be happy.

Im not happy now.

I dont understand how anyone can be happy knowing that their life is ultimately meaningless, that they are only alive because their parents engaged in a hormone induced humpfest and that they will be worm food and forgotten in the near future. How do you guys do it?

Quote:

What's the rush my friend? Stick around here for a while before making any decisions. There's some good reading to be had in these upper forums that I bet will make you think twice.

No rush really, but being depressed really sucks. I would rather get out of it sooner rather then later. I have been lurking on these forums for several years now and have read many of the articles in the library in that time. I have also been subscribed to Free Inquiry for a year and a half. I am well aware of how bad the biblical god is. However i think i could get over all that. There are billions of christians and they dont seem to give a shit.

Quote:

and here are a few more "cons" for you to consider

Thank you, i will concider them.

Quote:

It is good that you are searching. Trust me on this one - if you truly seek God with all your heart you will find him.

When/if i decide to turn myself into a christian i hope you are right.

christ-on-a-stick · 03-08-2003, 04:34 PM

Quote:

No rush really, but being depressed really sucks. I would rather get out of it sooner rather then later.

If you're depressed, seek therapy and possible medical help. Seriously, a twisted religion like Christianity is *not* going to alleviate your depression of you are truly depressed (as opposed to just feelin' down temporarily).

Half of me thinks that you are joking with this whole thing but I will give you the benefit of the doubt...

What's the big deal about turning into worm food eventually? Eternity would get pretty boring after a while. Plus, you won't *know* it when you're dead (kinda like before you were born!) so you won't care. Neat trick.

If you simply can't bear the atheistic outlook on life, why not look into some of the Eastern philosophies? Buddhism/Taosim? Kinder and gentler religion.

davidH · 03-08-2003, 04:34 PM

1. Belonging to a group that teaches and promotes intolerance toward other humans (gays & lesbians for instance).
2. Being expected to give up fun and harmless stuff that is perfectly healthy and natural but considered "sinful" by Christianity
3. Contributing to the propogation of a worldview (monotheism) that inspires people to do heinous things to each other in the false belief of an afterlife
4. Wasting lots of time (going to church, praying, reading the Bible etc.) that could be spent doing other things that will be more intellectually enriching or just enjoyable!
5. Being discouraged from questioning and learning. A Very Bad Thing (TM).

Wrong. Very Very Wrong.

1. What did Jesus do when he was brought someone commiting adultery and asked if they should stone her - he let her go and asked her to leave her life of sin.

As Christians we are to show God's love for everyone. Gays, lesbians etc. We hate the sin that they commit - but we do not hate the person that commits it.
Jesus died for everyone - he loved everyone that much. We are to show that love to everyone.
A christian should never promote intolerance to these people for God loves them just as much as he loves us.

2. Expected to give up fun and harmless stuff - depends what you are talking about. But you can be sure that if the Bible teaches that something is wrong - then it is certainly not harmless.
i.e Common thing that people bring up - Jesus says if you think lustful thoughts about a women then you have committed adultery with her in your heart. - is this harmless? - Ask those people whose marriages have been torn apart by this. Spouses whose love of this drives them further and further from each other - children hurt etc. Oh, it is harmful - though it may not yet seem like it.

3.Contributing to the propogation of a worldview (monotheism) that inspires people to do heinous things to each other in the false belief of an afterlife.

- You have nothing here that you can say the Bible teaches to do to people that are heinous in the hope of an afterlife.

4.Wasting lots of time (going to church, praying, reading the Bible etc.) that could be spent doing other things that will be more intellectually enriching or just enjoyable!

Not a waste of time if God is real which he is. This helps our relationship with God to grow - we become more sensitive to what he wants in our lives. - You only get to know a person if you spend time with them.

Other things can be done at other times that are intellectually enriching or just enjoyable.

5.Being discouraged from questioning and learning. A Very Bad Thing (TM).

Again completely wrong. I question evolution and I learn about it - as I study doing my degree. I test God's word and I find it holds fast. I learn from God's word and I learn about evolution.
What you have said is a common but wrong belief. We are just like you - wanting to understand.

As I read God's word I have discovered that evolution and the Bible are not compatible - one is wrong and the other is right.
As I have experienced God - I question evolution.

If you seek God with all your heart you will find him.

Care to explain why that didn't work for scores of us here???

I put it to you - answer this sincerely if you can.

"Was your whole heart devoted to finding God?"

God will be found by those who are completely sincere in finding him. If you never really bothered trying to spend time talking and listening to God - then its little wonder that you didn't find him.

That's like trying to get a drink of water but never bothering to turn the tap and get the water. Then going away and saying to other people - there is no water.

If you want to find God you will - it's as simple as that. What better way to solve the question of whether God exists - ask him.

Bumble Bee Tuna · 03-08-2003, 04:35 PM

Why do I need a purpose. I like being happy. Therefore my purpose in life is to be happy as much as possible. I really don't understand the need for more purpose than that. If you're depressed, get medication.

-B

Eric Starnes · 03-08-2003, 04:39 PM

Quote:

This has to be a joke.

Originally posted by Eric Starnes
Christianity: Benefits
8. Satisfaction of knowing bad people will burn in hell.

I mean, come on.

I swear to you on everything i hold dear(admittedly not very much right now, but its all i got) that i am completely serious.

Dosnt it bother you that the nazis that managed to sneak out of germany and not be found later did not and never will be punished in any way for the murder/torture of millions of people?

Wouldnt it bring you satisfaction to know that they are being punished in the afterlife?

JEST2ASK · 03-08-2003, 04:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by davidH
I'm a Christian and I just thought that I would answer this:

It is good that you are searching. Trust me on this one - if you truly seek God with all your heart you will find him.

Take the Bible at its word - if God is real then you will know by what you feel when you read the Bible and pray to him. You will know the joy as I have known and be able to say "God is good".

I have said this to many people before - take God at his word, for its the only way to know whether he exists or not - if he doesn't exist you will know and likewise the opposite.

Actually thank you ....
Five years is not a lifetime ... but I tried ... and no prayers were answered .... no revelations recieved .... the dobuts kept coming back .... Study of the bible instead of clearity raised more unresloved questions .... so I guess for me "if he doesn't exist you will know" is the only valid conclusion ..... I thank you ... while I can never be 100% sure of what tomorrow may bring, (and I am sure it wasn't your intent) this gives me peace ...

Sorry did not mean to sidetrack anyone .....

philechat · 03-08-2003, 04:42 PM

I don't understand the whole Christian obsession on say "sincerity", given the large number of Pascal's Wager type observed in the Christian religion. If you sincerely loved God, why the extraneous doctrine on "that beautiful place after this life"? Seems that people still want some practical benefits after they love God. Would Christians still love God if Heaven does not exist?

For me, honesty is much more important than sincerity, "honesty" meaning the ability to question and look at the evidence, instead of engaging in a pure wishful-thinking mental masturbation about "what I feel right", or sincerity. The number of feel-rights in say Islam or other religions should speak volumes.

Eric Starnes · 03-08-2003, 04:45 PM

Quote:

If you're depressed, seek therapy and possible medical help.

Oh no, please dont get me started on therapy and antidepressants.

You want me to trust an industry that gives amphetamines to little kids and thinks that fucking with my serotonin levels counts as "treatment." No thanks.

03-08-2003, 04:27 PM	#12
hezekiah jones Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: WI Posts: 4,357	Re: Why not Believe? This has to be a joke. Originally posted by Eric Starnes Christianity: Benefits 8. Satisfaction of knowing bad people will burn in hell. I mean, come on.

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03-08-2003, 04:34 PM	#15
davidH Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: N.Ireland Posts: 527	1. Belonging to a group that teaches and promotes intolerance toward other humans (gays & lesbians for instance). 2. Being expected to give up fun and harmless stuff that is perfectly healthy and natural but considered "sinful" by Christianity 3. Contributing to the propogation of a worldview (monotheism) that inspires people to do heinous things to each other in the false belief of an afterlife 4. Wasting lots of time (going to church, praying, reading the Bible etc.) that could be spent doing other things that will be more intellectually enriching or just enjoyable! 5. Being discouraged from questioning and learning. A Very Bad Thing (TM). Wrong. Very Very Wrong. 1. What did Jesus do when he was brought someone commiting adultery and asked if they should stone her - he let her go and asked her to leave her life of sin. As Christians we are to show God's love for everyone. Gays, lesbians etc. We hate the sin that they commit - but we do not hate the person that commits it. Jesus died for everyone - he loved everyone that much. We are to show that love to everyone. A christian should never promote intolerance to these people for God loves them just as much as he loves us. 2. Expected to give up fun and harmless stuff - depends what you are talking about. But you can be sure that if the Bible teaches that something is wrong - then it is certainly not harmless. i.e Common thing that people bring up - Jesus says if you think lustful thoughts about a women then you have committed adultery with her in your heart. - is this harmless? - Ask those people whose marriages have been torn apart by this. Spouses whose love of this drives them further and further from each other - children hurt etc. Oh, it is harmful - though it may not yet seem like it. 3.Contributing to the propogation of a worldview (monotheism) that inspires people to do heinous things to each other in the false belief of an afterlife. - You have nothing here that you can say the Bible teaches to do to people that are heinous in the hope of an afterlife. 4.Wasting lots of time (going to church, praying, reading the Bible etc.) that could be spent doing other things that will be more intellectually enriching or just enjoyable! Not a waste of time if God is real which he is. This helps our relationship with God to grow - we become more sensitive to what he wants in our lives. - You only get to know a person if you spend time with them. Other things can be done at other times that are intellectually enriching or just enjoyable. 5.Being discouraged from questioning and learning. A Very Bad Thing (TM). Again completely wrong. I question evolution and I learn about it - as I study doing my degree. I test God's word and I find it holds fast. I learn from God's word and I learn about evolution. What you have said is a common but wrong belief. We are just like you - wanting to understand. As I read God's word I have discovered that evolution and the Bible are not compatible - one is wrong and the other is right. As I have experienced God - I question evolution. If you seek God with all your heart you will find him. Care to explain why that didn't work for scores of us here??? I put it to you - answer this sincerely if you can. "Was your whole heart devoted to finding God?" God will be found by those who are completely sincere in finding him. If you never really bothered trying to spend time talking and listening to God - then its little wonder that you didn't find him. That's like trying to get a drink of water but never bothering to turn the tap and get the water. Then going away and saying to other people - there is no water. If you want to find God you will - it's as simple as that. What better way to solve the question of whether God exists - ask him.

03-08-2003, 04:35 PM	#16
Bumble Bee Tuna Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Middletown, CT Posts: 7,333	Why do I need a purpose. I like being happy. Therefore my purpose in life is to be happy as much as possible. I really don't understand the need for more purpose than that. If you're depressed, get medication. -B

03-08-2003, 04:42 PM	#19
philechat Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Mind of the Other Posts: 886	I don't understand the whole Christian obsession on say "sincerity", given the large number of Pascal's Wager type observed in the Christian religion. If you sincerely loved God, why the extraneous doctrine on "that beautiful place after this life"? Seems that people still want some practical benefits after they love God. Would Christians still love God if Heaven does not exist? For me, honesty is much more important than sincerity, "honesty" meaning the ability to question and look at the evidence, instead of engaging in a pure wishful-thinking mental masturbation about "what I feel right", or sincerity. The number of feel-rights in say Islam or other religions should speak volumes.

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