Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Jobar · 10-25-2002, 03:19 PM

Fourth-grade theology, but theology nonetheless.

Isn't it odd that even when discussed at the elementary school level, the notion of Gods and Devils prove just as nonsensical as when they are discussed at the most rarified heights of human thought?

Why, one might think that the whole nine yards was poppycock. Funny that the theists don't see it that way...

Jove · 10-29-2002, 05:21 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jerry Love:
The serious response I have been getting from Christians lately?

It brings glory to God to have people resist sin and worship him. It brings glory to God to punish sinners. Satan is allowed to corrupt people because that glorifies God and anything that glorifies God is good.

*shudder*

That's a very, very scary line of thought.

10-29-2002, 07:40 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by K:

Wouldn't Satan be far more deserving of the term omnipotent? What good is the power to create if someone else has the power to change your creations into something you detest?

If you read Gen.3 you will find that the Tree of Life is in need for wisdom, beauty and food and the selection of this was to be done by the Tree of Knowledge wherein we place our trust to make the distinction between good and evil.

This kind of means that God is letting our humanity--that we have built upon the tree of Knowledge--do his dirty work when we search for knowledge, shelter and food while God collects only that which pertains to wisdom, is pleasing to the eyes and is good for the physical sustainance of his handiwork in us.

The problem with satan is that the changes he makes to creation will always be for the benefit of God (good) and if they are not beneficial to creation (evil) they will not be re-created. So he kind of must always start at zero (blank slate, or Tree of Knowledge) and start from there each generation anew.

That is rather clever of God, I would say.

[ October 29, 2002: Message edited by: Amos ]

Doubting Didymus · 10-29-2002, 07:58 PM

Yes, very very clever. Boy howdy, how silly of me to have missed that one.

Answerer · 10-30-2002, 01:00 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by sandlewood:
I’m going to play devil’s advocate for a moment and take the theist side, since I think I can predict what the response will be. God is not powerless to stop Satan. God has created Satan in order to give us humans something to choose between. If there was no Satan, then there would be no choice for us and so God would not get…er…whatever benefit he gets out of being surrounded by humans that chose him instead of Satan. So if a human chooses Satan, it’s not that God is powerless to save him from Satan. Rather he just let’s that person have the choice he made.

Well, I will call this action of God as 'toying' (with Satan and the humans alike).

10-30-2002, 06:47 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Doubting Didymus:
Yes, very very clever. Boy howdy, how silly of me to have missed that one.

You are welcome.

SecularFuture · 10-30-2002, 10:56 AM

God VS Satan? Don't you mean God VS Himself? Is God is the creator of all things - he is also the creator of evil. Christian mythology is so contradictory.

10-30-2002, 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by SecularFuture:
God VS Satan? Don't you mean God VS Himself? Is God is the creator of all things - he is also the creator of evil. Christian mythology is so contradictory.

So then why don't you show me the thinginess of evil.

Vanderzyden · 10-30-2002, 03:48 PM

K,

It would seem that here, as in the other thread, that you avoid the critical issue of freedom of will. At least one person here has raised that issue.

Satan's power to corrupt may only be exercised upon willing agents. Each person chooses to do what is wrong, allowing themselves to be persuaded to go against what God has said is the proper function for a human.

From scripture, we see that what God "wants" is for people to freely love him. He will not force himself upon anyone.

John

Sheep in the big city · 10-30-2002, 04:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Vanderzyden:
K,
From scripture, we see that what God "wants" is for people to freely love him. He will not force himself upon anyone.

John

He will only subject anyone who doesn't freely love him to eternal torture - how sweet of him, how could anyone not love the little rascal

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10-25-2002, 03:19 PM	#11
Jobar Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: secularcafe.org Posts: 9,525	Fourth-grade theology, but theology nonetheless. Isn't it odd that even when discussed at the elementary school level, the notion of Gods and Devils prove just as nonsensical as when they are discussed at the most rarified heights of human thought? Why, one might think that the whole nine yards was poppycock. Funny that the theists don't see it that way...

10-29-2002, 07:58 PM	#14
Doubting Didymus Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: East Coast. Australia. Posts: 5,455	Yes, very very clever. Boy howdy, how silly of me to have missed that one.

10-30-2002, 10:56 AM	#17
SecularFuture Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 3,866	God VS Satan? Don't you mean God VS Himself? Is God is the creator of all things - he is also the creator of evil. Christian mythology is so contradictory.

10-30-2002, 03:48 PM	#19
Vanderzyden Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: California Posts: 694	K, It would seem that here, as in the other thread, that you avoid the critical issue of freedom of will. At least one person here has raised that issue. Satan's power to corrupt may only be exercised upon willing agents. Each person chooses to do what is wrong, allowing themselves to be persuaded to go against what God has said is the proper function for a human. From scripture, we see that what God "wants" is for people to freely love him. He will not force himself upon anyone. John

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