Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Secular Pinoy · 12-06-2002, 08:05 PM

I'm a newbie into Biblical Matters and I'd like to start a discussion on the various Jesus Myth Theories. I've just started reading GA Wells' The Jesus Myth. I heard that Wells now believes that Jesus might actually have existed as an historical figure. Also, I am planning on reading Ellegard's book and the Freke and Gandy papaerback (both of which I recently acquired). Lastly, I will be going to Doherty's and Acharya's websites to read what they have to say. Any other major Jesus Myther that I might find useful?

That will occupy my time for some time, and I was hoping for those who have read a lot of the above-mentioned subject to post their impressions of the different arguments that the various authors have written. What are the primary differences between the various Jesus Myth Theories? Similarities? Their dating of the Epistles and Gospels? Also, do they all have similar opinions on which Epistles are really written by Paul and which are pseudonymous? Their views on Josephus and other pagan evidences for Jesus?

Also, since Wells has accepted the existence of an historical Jesus, what are his opinions of others who still maintain the Jesus Myth position, primarily the arguments by Doherty, which R. Carrier finds persuasive (though only slightly)?

Thanks.

lpetrich · 12-06-2002, 08:33 PM

You might also include the position that the Gospels are largely mythical, but that there was a historical Jesus -- one can imagine a continuum of historicity with Jesus-mythicism at one end.

[ December 06, 2002: Message edited by: lpetrich ]</p>

Biff the unclean · 12-06-2002, 09:22 PM

Sounds like you have been listening to some Fundies about Wells and the historical Jesus.
The historical Jesus he mentions is not the magical Christ, but just a guy like any other guy. There is no evidence for him, but maybe he existed and maybe not, No body knows and it doesn't matter anyway.
That's the historic/sorta Jesus Wells says might have a slight chance of existing. A "nobody."
So don't get your shorts in a knot, Wells hasn't "found" Christ. He just admits a vague possibility of no consequence.

Uzzah · 12-07-2002, 08:21 AM

You also might want to read Robert M Price. He is also a JC myther. Although I warn you, readng "Deconstructing Jesus" isn't for the faint of heart.

Uzzah

Secular Pinoy · 12-08-2002, 04:02 AM

Quote:

You might also include the position that the Gospels are largely mythical, but that there was a historical Jesus -- one can imagine a continuum of historicity with Jesus-mythicism at one end.

I just got Crossan's book The Historical Jesus for that. I might get Strobel's The Case for Christ for a more conservative opinion on Jesus.

Quote:

You also might want to read Robert M Price.

Ok, I might try to read him as well, even if I may be a bit faint-hearted.

Concerning the OP, is there any online article comparing and contrasting the various Jesus Myth theories? Specifically those that has answers to my above-mentioned questions?

Jayhawker Soule · 12-08-2002, 04:52 AM

Just in case you're not familiar with some of Kirby's excellent work: <a href="http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/theories.html" target="_blank">Historical Jesus Theories</a>

Toto · 12-09-2002, 09:20 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Secular Pinoy:
<strong> I just got Crossan's book The Historical Jesus for that. I might get Strobel's The Case for Christ for a more conservative opinion on Jesus</strong>

Strobel is low-grade easily refuted apologetics, not on the same plane with Crossan or Price.
You'd do better with N.T. Wright for a conservative viewpoint (check Peter's Historical Jesus page referenced above.)

If you want an interesting book about the search for the historical Jesus from the perspective of a ne0-conservative Catholic, you might like Charlotte Allen's The Human Christ which I discussed <a href="http://iidb.org/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=51&t=000406&p=" target="_blank">here</a>.

Secular Pinoy · 12-09-2002, 03:11 PM

Ok, though I haven't seen any N.T. Wright books here. Maybe Charlotte Allen's book is available. Thanks for the info.

12-06-2002, 08:05 PM	#1
Secular Pinoy Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Quezon City, Philippines Posts: 1,994	Jesus Myth Theories - Compare and Contrast I'm a newbie into Biblical Matters and I'd like to start a discussion on the various Jesus Myth Theories. I've just started reading GA Wells' The Jesus Myth. I heard that Wells now believes that Jesus might actually have existed as an historical figure. Also, I am planning on reading Ellegard's book and the Freke and Gandy papaerback (both of which I recently acquired). Lastly, I will be going to Doherty's and Acharya's websites to read what they have to say. Any other major Jesus Myther that I might find useful? That will occupy my time for some time, and I was hoping for those who have read a lot of the above-mentioned subject to post their impressions of the different arguments that the various authors have written. What are the primary differences between the various Jesus Myth Theories? Similarities? Their dating of the Epistles and Gospels? Also, do they all have similar opinions on which Epistles are really written by Paul and which are pseudonymous? Their views on Josephus and other pagan evidences for Jesus? Also, since Wells has accepted the existence of an historical Jesus, what are his opinions of others who still maintain the Jesus Myth position, primarily the arguments by Doherty, which R. Carrier finds persuasive (though only slightly)? Thanks.

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12-06-2002, 08:33 PM	#2
lpetrich Contributor Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Lebanon, OR, USA Posts: 16,829	You might also include the position that the Gospels are largely mythical, but that there was a historical Jesus -- one can imagine a continuum of historicity with Jesus-mythicism at one end. [ December 06, 2002: Message edited by: lpetrich ]</p>

12-06-2002, 09:22 PM	#3
Biff the unclean Banned Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: an inaccessible island fortress Posts: 10,638	Sounds like you have been listening to some Fundies about Wells and the historical Jesus. The historical Jesus he mentions is not the magical Christ, but just a guy like any other guy. There is no evidence for him, but maybe he existed and maybe not, No body knows and it doesn't matter anyway. That's the historic/sorta Jesus Wells says might have a slight chance of existing. A "nobody." So don't get your shorts in a knot, Wells hasn't "found" Christ. He just admits a vague possibility of no consequence.

12-07-2002, 08:21 AM	#4
Uzzah Regular Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Tennessee Posts: 196	You also might want to read Robert M Price. He is also a JC myther. Although I warn you, readng "Deconstructing Jesus" isn't for the faint of heart. Uzzah

12-08-2002, 04:52 AM	#6
Jayhawker Soule Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Chicago Posts: 1,777	Just in case you're not familiar with some of Kirby's excellent work: <a href="http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/theories.html" target="_blank">Historical Jesus Theories</a>

12-09-2002, 03:11 PM	#8
Secular Pinoy Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Quezon City, Philippines Posts: 1,994	Ok, though I haven't seen any N.T. Wright books here. Maybe Charlotte Allen's book is available. Thanks for the info.

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