99Percent

1. God is irrational.
2. Miracles are irrational.
3. Therefore if miracles are true, God must be true.

Question is, do we really want to live in an irrational world? I don't thinks so, because then life would self destruct.

So why are believers so bent into making the world an irrational one? Because they don't accept their own rational existence.

Kenny

I hope this is not an attempt on your part to construct a valid syllogism, because, if so, it fails miserably, but what would I know, I’m just an irrational theist after all

No, that’s why its a good thing that the world is really the product of rational intelligence rather than the irrational forces of blind chance and brute necessity as naturalists believe.

Any more strawmen? I think you’ve managed to knock this one down already.

God Bless,
Kenny

99Percent

Kenny: the world is really the product of rational intelligence rather than the irrational forces of blind chance and brute necessity as naturalists believe.

I never intended to build strawmen, but you sure did with this last statement

Kenny, do you think life is irrational?

emotional

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How many times do I have to say it? Plantaris muscle, appendix, coccyx, nipples for men, dog's toes, inverted wiring in the retina! Infant mortality, 2x2 matrix of good/evil fate (the righteous suffer, the righteous prosper, the wicked suffer, the wicked prosper, with no system to it) etc etc.

You have to be really blind to believe that the just, loving, kind, merciful, all-controlling, all-sovereign God of the Bible exists.

CodeMason

(Emphasis my own.) But, if not for brute necessity, whence your God?

Secondly, but less importantly, why do you believe mathematical laws are irrational? Perhaps Kenny believes that Newton's theorems of motion are as arbitrary as the immutable God whom everyone's interpretation seems to be slightly different.

Foxhole Atheist

99Percent:

you need to add one more:

1. God is irrational.
2. Miracles are irrational.
3. Therefore if miracles are true, God must be true
4. If miracles and God are true, then the afterlife is true.

HelenM

[ January 25, 2002: Message edited by: HelenSL ]</p>

Kenny

No

[ January 25, 2002: Message edited by: Kenny ]</p>

Kenny

It depends on what you mean by brute necessity. The definition I had in mind is that of logical constraints acting on facts, and the relations between them, which are true for no underlying reason. Since Christian theism holds that God is a necessary being Whose nature entails that He exists in all possible worlds (hence the reason why he exists), that God is personal, that God is the Creator of the world and has made it in accordance with a rational plan, there are no brute necessities in this sense.

I don’t.

I believe that the universe has an underlying rational structure to it because it is the creation of a rational being.

At any rate, my purpose in joining this thread was not to involve my self in a big debate about the implications of naturalism verses theism concerning the issue of whether or not the universe is a rational place, but to point out that 99percent had made a rather poorly constructed stawman. As theists, we believe that the universe is the result of a rational plan and, hence, a rational place. We don’t “want to live in an irrational world,” nor do we believe that it is one.

God Bless,
Kenny

[ January 25, 2002: Message edited by: Kenny ]</p>

Koyaanisqatsi

Kenny, you accuse 99Percent of making poorly constructed strawmen?


NOR IS THERE ANY EVIDENCE OR JUSTIFICATION FOR SIMPLY ACCEPTING THIS FICTIONAL NONSENSE AS "TRUE!"

You can't just say, "we believe it's true, therefore it is true." You have to actually back up this nonsense with compelling evidence, not childish proclamations!

Why is that so f*ing difficult for you cult members to get through your non-evolved brains?