Freethought & Rationalism Archive

wildernesse · 12-10-2002, 07:24 AM

Being avoided by your neighbors is discrimination? Good grief, I thought that was just normal America!

I don't know that atheists are discriminated against in the job force--mainly because here in the Bible Belt I've never known anyone's religion that I've worked with really. It's not part of your job and people from either side need to keep their beliefs from interfering with their professional lives. In fact, I assume that most people are not believers. (Not to say that you should comply with work-related things if they are against your beliefs, but that your professional relationships with the people at work and your clients need to be professional.)

As my mother told someone she recently kicked to the curb, she didn't care how good a Christian he was--if he couldn't do his job he wasn't welcome to work for her. (But I'm such a good Christian was his shield from all criticism--and if you were a good Christian too, you wouldn't be upset with me!

) My mother's a moderate Christian in a predominately Christian area of the rural/suburban South, but she separates what is required of her for her job in the government from her personal beliefs and life. I can't see her (or other responsible people) marking someone's evaluation down for not believing like she does or up for people who agree with her.

A good dose of schooling would go a long way towards mediating the wackiness of American society. Why don't more of you get involved? Teach or run for the school board, or at least go to the meetings--before they're trying to teach creationism in science classes or that our nation is founded on Christian principles in government. You don't even need a kid--it's your tax dollars they're spending. Run for city council or something. Tell people you are an atheist if they ask what kind of church you go to. I don't think that atheists need to be evangelistic in nature to get respect--maybe they just need to be visible and active in their communities.

[Edited to remove unkind remark! Sorry guys!]

--tibac

[ December 10, 2002: Message edited by: wildernesse ]

[ December 10, 2002: Message edited by: wildernesse ]

LLaurieG · 12-10-2002, 08:14 AM

[To dangin] Indeed, I did meet you, and your lovely assistant ;-) at the march; Crazyfingers introduced us. (Petite, red anorak). Email me when your documentary is ready!

(To digital chicken) I think pretty much everyone, believer or creed-free, already strives to feature some goodwill and charity in their lives. There are good folks on both sides. I don't think it's about non-believers needing to strive even more than we already do

to be moral supermen.

( To One...sane) Now THAT is a strategy worth remembering. Excellent idea.

(To wildernesse) "I don't know that atheists are discriminated against in the job force..." Here's an example. <a href="http://boards.gamers.com/messages/message_view.asp?name=prembone&id=zxsup" target="_blank">http://boards.gamers.com/messages/message_view.asp?name=prembone&id=zxsup</a> This guy was outed as an atheist at his workplace, singled out at holiday time and publicly named in a widely circulated email as "not a team player" because he didn't want to support a religious charity. And I do tell people I'm an atheist - it's far from a secret in my family and circle of friends. As for your "get involved" suggestions, they're good.

Is anyone going to pursue and speculate on the topic? Does no one know any atheists who've been ill-treated for their non-belief?

Wyz_sub10 · 12-10-2002, 08:45 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by dangin:
Anyway, I think we need a Fred Phelps. Nothing does more to improve one side's appeal than making the other side ludicrous. Fred has done more to help the gay movement than Matthew Shepherd in my opinion.

Funny...I was thinking the exact same thing.

I'm not as interested in promoting atheism as I am critical thought.

I think populists who can communicate well to the masses are best - people like Michael Shermer (to use a very good example cited above). Critical thinking has to become mainstream in order to have any effect. Questioning one's beliefs needs to be "fashionable", and not seen as heretical or weak.

Bumble Bee Tuna · 12-10-2002, 08:46 AM

Dangin-

Do you really think we don't already have a Fred Phelps? I can name numerous people that make our opposition look ludicrous. Pat Robertson, Jerry Falwell, pick a fundy evangelist out of the hat...

Of course, I don't actually know who Fred Phelps is.

-B

LLaurieG · 12-10-2002, 09:03 AM

(Laurie) Reverend Fred Phelps is head of the God Hates Fags ministry in Topeka, Kansas. The ministry consists chiefly of his many family members, but is notorious for hateful acts such as picketing Matthew Shepard's funeral with placards saying that he's in hell now and reiterating that god hates fags. I won't give the link to his site, you can find it yourself if you're curious.

dangin · 12-10-2002, 09:47 AM

Yeah,

Fred is so ludicrous that people don't want to be associated with him in anyway. It's one of those "stay off my side" kind of deals.

Falwell, and Robertson have followers, Fred has cultmembers and few at that.

[ December 10, 2002: Message edited by: dangin ]

wildernesse · 12-10-2002, 10:41 AM

Laurie:

Personally, I don't see the person on the link being discriminated against because of his non-belief, but because he wouldn't play their corporate games. Management wasn't too happy about the team-building going on where my dad worked either (Their team slogan was "Every man for himself.") and got huffy, but it wasn't because of anyone's non-belief. Same issue here in my eyes. Another good reason why not to work in the corporate world.

Team-building is just a nice way of making people feel good about being slaves together.

Slaves: We might be starving and naked, but by golly, we're a team! And we're more efficient at making bricks now! Everybody wins!

--tibac

[ December 10, 2002: Message edited by: wildernesse ]

Rusting Car Bumper · 12-10-2002, 10:55 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by wildernesse:
Being avoided by your neighbors is discrimination? Good grief, I thought that was just normal America!

I don't know that atheists are discriminated against in the job force--mainly because here in the Bible Belt I've never known anyone's religion that I've worked with really.

I've known people who have been asked about Jesus on job interviews and who have been asked about what church they attend while at work.

DC

Rusting Car Bumper · 12-10-2002, 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by LLaurieG:

(To digital chicken) I think pretty much everyone, believer or creed-free, already strives to feature some goodwill and charity in their lives. There are good folks on both sides. I don't think it's about non-believers needing to strive even more than we already do

to be moral supermen.

I frankly don't think we do enough so I strongly disagree.

Name an atheist group that was formed solely for charity? (Don't give me the name of a secular group.) Now name faith-based charity groups.

Even if you can name an atheist group, the ratio is 1000 to 1.

The fact is that the public profile of atheists is that of C-S Seperation and complaining about religion.

DC

Living Dead Chipmunk · 12-10-2002, 11:12 AM

So the outward pretenses of charity, no matter how thinly veiled, are worth more than actual good works? Someone starting "Christ for Kids" just for the purpose of getting his name in the paper and looking good to his home town is more important in the grand scheme of charity than a secular organization that gives tons of money and support but otherwise stays under the radar (and doesn't say "We do this to glorify the non-existance of god!")?

12-10-2002, 07:24 AM	#11
wildernesse Veteran Member Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 1,578	Being avoided by your neighbors is discrimination? Good grief, I thought that was just normal America! I don't know that atheists are discriminated against in the job force--mainly because here in the Bible Belt I've never known anyone's religion that I've worked with really. It's not part of your job and people from either side need to keep their beliefs from interfering with their professional lives. In fact, I assume that most people are not believers. (Not to say that you should comply with work-related things if they are against your beliefs, but that your professional relationships with the people at work and your clients need to be professional.) As my mother told someone she recently kicked to the curb, she didn't care how good a Christian he was--if he couldn't do his job he wasn't welcome to work for her. (But I'm such a good Christian was his shield from all criticism--and if you were a good Christian too, you wouldn't be upset with me! ) My mother's a moderate Christian in a predominately Christian area of the rural/suburban South, but she separates what is required of her for her job in the government from her personal beliefs and life. I can't see her (or other responsible people) marking someone's evaluation down for not believing like she does or up for people who agree with her. A good dose of schooling would go a long way towards mediating the wackiness of American society. Why don't more of you get involved? Teach or run for the school board, or at least go to the meetings--before they're trying to teach creationism in science classes or that our nation is founded on Christian principles in government. You don't even need a kid--it's your tax dollars they're spending. Run for city council or something. Tell people you are an atheist if they ask what kind of church you go to. I don't think that atheists need to be evangelistic in nature to get respect--maybe they just need to be visible and active in their communities. [Edited to remove unkind remark! Sorry guys!] --tibac [ December 10, 2002: Message edited by: wildernesse ] [ December 10, 2002: Message edited by: wildernesse ]</p>

12-10-2002, 09:47 AM	#16
dangin Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: The Middle, Kansas Posts: 2,637	Yeah, Fred is so ludicrous that people don't want to be associated with him in anyway. It's one of those "stay off my side" kind of deals. Falwell, and Robertson have followers, Fred has cultmembers and few at that. [ December 10, 2002: Message edited by: dangin ]</p>

12-10-2002, 10:41 AM	#17
wildernesse Veteran Member Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 1,578	Laurie: Personally, I don't see the person on the link being discriminated against because of his non-belief, but because he wouldn't play their corporate games. Management wasn't too happy about the team-building going on where my dad worked either (Their team slogan was "Every man for himself.") and got huffy, but it wasn't because of anyone's non-belief. Same issue here in my eyes. Another good reason why not to work in the corporate world. Team-building is just a nice way of making people feel good about being slaves together. Slaves: We might be starving and naked, but by golly, we're a team! And we're more efficient at making bricks now! Everybody wins! --tibac [ December 10, 2002: Message edited by: wildernesse ]</p>

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version	Search this Thread: Advanced Search

12-10-2002, 08:14 AM	#12
LLaurieG Regular Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: So. California Posts: 116	[To dangin] Indeed, I did meet you, and your lovely assistant ;-) at the march; Crazyfingers introduced us. (Petite, red anorak). Email me when your documentary is ready! (To digital chicken) I think pretty much everyone, believer or creed-free, already strives to feature some goodwill and charity in their lives. There are good folks on both sides. I don't think it's about non-believers needing to strive even more than we already do to be moral supermen. ( To One...sane) Now THAT is a strategy worth remembering. Excellent idea. (To wildernesse) "I don't know that atheists are discriminated against in the job force..." Here's an example. <a href="http://boards.gamers.com/messages/message_view.asp?name=prembone&id=zxsup" target="_blank">http://boards.gamers.com/messages/message_view.asp?name=prembone&id=zxsup</a> This guy was outed as an atheist at his workplace, singled out at holiday time and publicly named in a widely circulated email as "not a team player" because he didn't want to support a religious charity. And I do tell people I'm an atheist - it's far from a secret in my family and circle of friends. As for your "get involved" suggestions, they're good. Is anyone going to pursue and speculate on the topic? Does no one know any atheists who've been ill-treated for their non-belief?

12-10-2002, 08:46 AM	#14
Bumble Bee Tuna Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Middletown, CT Posts: 7,333	Dangin- Do you really think we don't already have a Fred Phelps? I can name numerous people that make our opposition look ludicrous. Pat Robertson, Jerry Falwell, pick a fundy evangelist out of the hat... Of course, I don't actually know who Fred Phelps is. -B

12-10-2002, 09:03 AM	#15
LLaurieG Regular Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: So. California Posts: 116	(Laurie) Reverend Fred Phelps is head of the God Hates Fags ministry in Topeka, Kansas. The ministry consists chiefly of his many family members, but is notorious for hateful acts such as picketing Matthew Shepard's funeral with placards saying that he's in hell now and reiterating that god hates fags. I won't give the link to his site, you can find it yourself if you're curious.

12-10-2002, 11:12 AM	#20
Living Dead Chipmunk Regular Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: South Carolina Posts: 312	So the outward pretenses of charity, no matter how thinly veiled, are worth more than actual good works? Someone starting "Christ for Kids" just for the purpose of getting his name in the paper and looking good to his home town is more important in the grand scheme of charity than a secular organization that gives tons of money and support but otherwise stays under the radar (and doesn't say "We do this to glorify the non-existance of god!")?

Freethought & Rationalism Archive

The archives are read only.