Freethought & Rationalism Archive

LLaurieG · 12-09-2002, 10:19 AM

(Laurie) I know this may be a shocking statement, but it is an idea I have never seen brought up in this forum. I absolutely don't wish what happened to Matthew Shepard on anyone. But Matthew Shepard's death was a watershed event for the perception of homosexuals in this country. It suddenly transformed what had been a deplorable but not unusual act of homophobia into a hate crime. His tragic death put a face on gay-bashing and on gays.

Atheists endure injustice all the time. But have any of us been the victims of actual violence? Anyone here been the victim of a hate crime for your non-belief? Everyone says our cause needs money. It does. We say it needs more media exposure. It does. What I contend will readily get it both those things is the face of a sympathetic victim.

Any non-believers here ever been roughed up by religious bigots? Any open atheist here ever had his or her tires slashed, a window shot out? Not been rented to, even? If so, would you be willing to endure the media circus of being "a victim of hate?"

Atheism's first face was Madalyn Murray-O'Hair. Atheism's current face is Michael Newdow. While I totally agree with his "under God" dispute about the pledge in schools, the "injustice" done to him does not resonate sympathetically whatsoever with the vast majority of Americans.

I marched at the Godless March. Fundies screamed bible verses at us but not one of them touched any of us. (If one had, believe me I would have been MORE than happy to file assault charges and call every newspaper in America). In other countries people die from acts of religious hate every day. "Hate crime" is the hot new perception in America. I would like to see us use it. You want more media attention for atheism? Start getting loudly vocal, when injustices occur, that non-believers are "victims of hate" by believers.

What atheism needs is a poster child.

*Ahh* (the devil's advocate always whispers softly). But who will bell the cat?

[ December 09, 2002: Message edited by: LLaurieG ]

pz · 12-09-2002, 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by LLaurieG:
*Ahh* (the devil's advocate always whispers softly). But who will bell the cat?

Are you volunteering? Seriously, death on either side is not the answer.

Unfortunately, for the "martyr for the cause" idea to work, there has to be a foundation of sympathy somewhere, and that takes time to build up. I fear that if someone were killed for being an atheist, there wouldn't be much outrage or sympathy at all.

Particularly in the current political climate. Trent Lott has just wistfully reminisced about how this country would be a better place if that evil old skank, Strom Thurmond, had been elected President in the 40's, when he was running on the segregation plank and swearing that he'd use the army to keep the 'nigras' out of the schools. The media seem to have collectedly sighed, "ho hum", and decided to let it slide. Do you really think that if some godless heathen were murdered, that anyone would care?

Krieger · 12-09-2002, 11:06 AM

Quote:

Do you really think that if some godless heathen were murdered, that anyone would care?

The media would not be allowed to report that (the national news networks) just like they didn't say anything about the Godless march that had over 2000 people there. However, just in the weeks before that march, the media reported about a pro-slavery reparations march that only drew 500 people and the next week there was an anti-war march that drew several thousand. They intentionally ignore us..

scombrid · 12-09-2002, 12:23 PM

[QUOTE]Not been rented to, even? [QUOTE]

When my dad and mom got married and moved to Chapel Hill for dad to start his PhD they were refused an apartment because the landlord "Ain't rentin out to no hippy, commie, atheists..." {dad had a huge bushy black beard, long straight hair, and big thick black horned rimmed glasses} The funny part is that my parents were and still are (no longer practicing) Southern Baptists. Dad was and still is pretty straight edged, he just looks like the biologist that he is.

12-09-2002, 02:47 PM

No, we don't need a Matthew Shepard, we need a Robert Ingersoll. We need charismatic leaders who go from city to city spreading the gospel of freethought. We need to make the average Joe realize that this is the only life he's going to get and that he should not waste it on religion and superstition.

Rusting Car Bumper · 12-09-2002, 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by atheist_in_foxhole:
No, we don't need a Matthew Shepard, we need a Robert Ingersoll. We need charismatic leaders who go from city to city spreading the gospel of freethought.

Agreed.

However, what we need to change ourselves as well. If non-believers were the exemplary standard of goodwill and charity then more people would be inclined to be one or identify with us.

It need not be limited to a conversion effort.

DC

LLaurieG · 12-09-2002, 04:06 PM

Quote:

(Atheist-in-foxhole said) We don't need a Matthew Shepard, we need a Robert Ingersoll. We need charismatic leaders who go from city to city spreading the gospel of freethought. We need to make the average Joe realize that this is the only life he's going to get and that he should not waste it on religion and superstition.

Hear, hear! With that I most fully agree. There are brainy atheists (Richard Dawkins, Michael Shermer and Dan Barker spring immediately to mind). And Landover Baptist Church has some devastatingly funny atheists. And that pretty much covers my own approach: to be an eloquent, genuinely moral atheist, while never losing an opportunity to point the humor finger (we all know which one that is)

at religion's absurdities. Standing up for non-belief while still cutting our beloved believer family members slack. I bet most non-believers are the same.

An Ingersoll (or 100 of him) would be the best way. A martyr would be an awful way. Yet martyrdom inarguably focuses a shockwave of media attention, which is a good thing. I am positive that there are such stories out there. "Roving bands of Baptist youth..." Atheists quietly passed over for promotions; refused rentals and loans, or just avoided by their neighbors is the much more common pattern... mild stuff. It's just mild discrimination here in America. Too mild. Nothing America feels terribly bad about. Yet.

We have the right message! "Your brain is your shepherd. Are there rational reasons and evidence for the things you believe? Newsflash: there's supposed to be! Remember that sarcastic skepticism you had fun aiming at teachers in school? Ding, ding, ding! You're supposed to apply that same logic to all the beliefs in your LIFE. It's OK to question!"

GunnerJ · 12-09-2002, 04:30 PM

"Spreading the gospel of freethought?"

Yikes. And here I thought I had just escaped a religion.

One of the last sane · 12-09-2002, 06:52 PM

Suggestion: if and when you ever get praised for doing something generous or altruistic (maybe even heroic, if the opportunity arises), make a point of saying you did it because you're an atheist, you believe we only get one life and its right here and now, that what happens is not the will of some sky pixy but can be changed by us, that as an atheist you believe human life and happiness are paramount.
Don't ever let anyone praise you for a "Christian" deed without getting that in. And if any grateful person says "God bless you!" reply "If there was a god, ordinary people like me would not have to do altruistic things, would we?"

dangin · 12-10-2002, 06:55 AM

LlaurieG, do you have a cd out? Just wondering if you are someone I met at the march.

Anyway, I think we need a Fred Phelps. Nothing does more to improve one side's appeal than making the other side ludicrous. Fred has done more to help the gay movement than Matthew Shepherd in my opinion.

12-09-2002, 10:19 AM	#1
LLaurieG Regular Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: So. California Posts: 116	What atheism needs is a Matthew Shepard (Laurie) I know this may be a shocking statement, but it is an idea I have never seen brought up in this forum. I absolutely don't wish what happened to Matthew Shepard on anyone. But Matthew Shepard's death was a watershed event for the perception of homosexuals in this country. It suddenly transformed what had been a deplorable but not unusual act of homophobia into a hate crime. His tragic death put a face on gay-bashing and on gays. Atheists endure injustice all the time. But have any of us been the victims of actual violence? Anyone here been the victim of a hate crime for your non-belief? Everyone says our cause needs money. It does. We say it needs more media exposure. It does. What I contend will readily get it both those things is the face of a sympathetic victim. Any non-believers here ever been roughed up by religious bigots? Any open atheist here ever had his or her tires slashed, a window shot out? Not been rented to, even? If so, would you be willing to endure the media circus of being "a victim of hate?" Atheism's first face was Madalyn Murray-O'Hair. Atheism's current face is Michael Newdow. While I totally agree with his "under God" dispute about the pledge in schools, the "injustice" done to him does not resonate sympathetically whatsoever with the vast majority of Americans. I marched at the Godless March. Fundies screamed bible verses at us but not one of them touched any of us. (If one had, believe me I would have been MORE than happy to file assault charges and call every newspaper in America). In other countries people die from acts of religious hate every day. "Hate crime" is the hot new perception in America. I would like to see us use it. You want more media attention for atheism? Start getting loudly vocal, when injustices occur, that non-believers are "victims of hate" by believers. What atheism needs is a poster child. Ahh (the devil's advocate always whispers softly). But who will bell the cat? [ December 09, 2002: Message edited by: LLaurieG ]</p>

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version	Search this Thread: Advanced Search

12-09-2002, 12:23 PM	#4
scombrid Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Central Florida Posts: 2,759	[QUOTE]Not been rented to, even? [QUOTE] When my dad and mom got married and moved to Chapel Hill for dad to start his PhD they were refused an apartment because the landlord "Ain't rentin out to no hippy, commie, atheists..." {dad had a huge bushy black beard, long straight hair, and big thick black horned rimmed glasses} The funny part is that my parents were and still are (no longer practicing) Southern Baptists. Dad was and still is pretty straight edged, he just looks like the biologist that he is.

12-09-2002, 02:47 PM	#5
atheist_in_foxhole Guest Posts: n/a	No, we don't need a Matthew Shepard, we need a Robert Ingersoll. We need charismatic leaders who go from city to city spreading the gospel of freethought. We need to make the average Joe realize that this is the only life he's going to get and that he should not waste it on religion and superstition.

12-09-2002, 04:30 PM	#8
GunnerJ Banned Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: a place where i can list whatever location i want Posts: 4,871	"Spreading the gospel of freethought?" Yikes. And here I thought I had just escaped a religion.

12-09-2002, 06:52 PM	#9
One of the last sane Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: hereabouts Posts: 734	Suggestion: if and when you ever get praised for doing something generous or altruistic (maybe even heroic, if the opportunity arises), make a point of saying you did it because you're an atheist, you believe we only get one life and its right here and now, that what happens is not the will of some sky pixy but can be changed by us, that as an atheist you believe human life and happiness are paramount. Don't ever let anyone praise you for a "Christian" deed without getting that in. And if any grateful person says "God bless you!" reply "If there was a god, ordinary people like me would not have to do altruistic things, would we?"

12-10-2002, 06:55 AM	#10
dangin Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: The Middle, Kansas Posts: 2,637	LlaurieG, do you have a cd out? Just wondering if you are someone I met at the march. Anyway, I think we need a Fred Phelps. Nothing does more to improve one side's appeal than making the other side ludicrous. Fred has done more to help the gay movement than Matthew Shepherd in my opinion.

Freethought & Rationalism Archive

The archives are read only.