Sheep in the big city

Lot's of our (atheists) reasoning about the unfairness of the proposed christian god hinges on eternal torment in hell.
But I do not recall any of that from the Bible. Where in the Bible does it say that the punishment for nonbelievers is more than just separation from God and his eternal love?

ApostateAbe

Thanks to the exhaustive research of Terry Watkins, host of "The Truth About Hell" (http://www.av1611.org/hell.html), we can answer that question.

Luke 16:22-28
22 . . . the rich man also died, and was buried;
23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.
26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.
27 Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father’s house:
28 For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.

In Matthew 13:42, Jesus says: "And shall cast them into a FURNACE OF FIRE: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth."

In Matthew 25:41, Jesus says: "Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting FIRE,. . ."

Revelation 20:15 says, " And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the LAKE OF FIRE."

Revelation 14:10 says, " . . . and he shall be tormented with fire and BRIMSTONE . . ." And Job 18 describes the " . . . PLACE of him that knoweth not God" (vs 21), in verse 15 as, " . . . BRIMSTONE shall be scattered upon his habitation."

The Bible describes it as weeping (Matt 8:12), wailing (Matt 13:42), gnashing of teeth (Matt 13:50), darkness (Matt 25:30), flames (Luke 16:24), burning (Isa 33:14), torments (Luke 16:23), everlasting punishment! Jesus Christ says in Matthew 25:41, "Depart from me, ye cursed, into EVERLASTING FIRE, prepared for the devil and his angels."

Rev. 14:11: "The smoke of their TORMENT ascendeth up for EVER AND EVER: and they have NO REST DAY NOR NIGHT."

Jesus Christ says in Mark 9:43-47,


43 And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:
45 And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:
47 And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire

WHAT JESUS CHRIST SAYS ABOUT HELL!
"fire" Matt 7:19, 13:40, 25:41
"everlasting fire" Matt 18:8, 25:41
"eternal damnation" Mark 3:29
"hell fire" Matt 5:22, 18:9, Mark 9:47
"damnation" Matt 23:14, Mark 12:40, Luke 20:47
"damnation of hell" Matt 23:33
"resurrection of damnation" John 5:29
"furnace of fire" Matt 13:42, 50
"the fire that never shall be quenched" Mark 9:43, 45
"the fire is not quenched" Mark 9:44, 46, 48
"Where their worm dieth not" Mark 9:44, 46, 48
"wailing and gnashing of teeth" Matt 13:42, 50
"weeping and gnashing of teeth" Matt 8:12, 22:13, 25:30
"torments" Luke 16:23
"tormented in this flame" Luke 16:24
"place of torment" Luke 16:28
"outer darkness" Matt 8:12, 22:13
"everlasting punishment" Matt 25:46

Seeker630

I think someone in one of these forums way back when, mentioned that the concept of Hell as Christians understand it does not exist for the Jews, and is not even mentioned anywhere in the Old Testament. Does anyone here know if that's true? I have read almost the entire OT and can't remember seeing any reference to it.

semyaza

Yes, that's more or less correct. The ancient Jews (like their Canaanite cousins) believed in an afterlife, but did not distinguish between "heaven" and "hell". A careful reading of the OT will show that all of the dead landed up in the same place - the underworld. The confusion comes in when the Hebrew world for "underworld" is translated as "hell" in English. This tends to leave the casual reader with the impression that the OT refers to the New Testament concept of Hell.

What you will never find in the OT is any reference to good deeds being rewarded after death (except, possibly, for very late works such as Daniel). Without exception, faithfulness to God and moral rectitude were rewarded in life, not after death.

Shadowy Man

I was raised Jewish and never heard any mention of sin, heaven, hell, or the afterlife. As far as I can tell, those are all Christian concepts.

Sheep in the big city

Thanks guys, that cleared up a lot for me, because I often heard the excuse from christians that there is no such place as hell or at least none where torture is performed.

Do you also have references in the Bible for God being omnipotent and omniscient?
Is there a difference in this regard in christian and jewish lore?

AJ the greek

I remember learning that before Christ there was a place called "Shaeol", or something like that.

I don't know if that word is in the text or if is the origin word for something else(like hell in a later translation)

Marduk

"I remember learning that before Christ there was a place called "Shaeol", or something like that."

Sheol, it was the traditional ancient middle-eastern view of death, you lied under the ground as if sleeping, no torture chamber or Disneyland. In the pre-Zoroastrian days.

Also the word gehenna is translated as hell in the new testament. Ghenna was a garbage dump outside of Jerusalem that was always burning.
Sounds more like a figure of speech saying you will go to Gehenna, like when parents yell at their kids "If you don't behave, mommy's going to take you to gehenna!"

emotional

Hell is not mentioned in the Hebrew Bible (OT to christianos ). Heaven is mentioned, but only as the inaccessible realm above the <a href="http://www.geocities.com/stmetanat/genesis1.htm" target="_blank">firmament</a>. A plain reading of the Hebrew Bible does not show any hint of afterlife - those are just reinterpretations. Afar ata v'el afar tashuv - "Dust art thou, and to dust wilt thou return" - no afterlife, just material, bodily death, as do atheists believe in. The NT upgraded the system to a full-blown Pascalian scam.

The Jewish conceptions of heaven and hell are as numerous as the rabbis writing about them. I've been told by various Orthodox Jews that I would burn in hell for ever, whereas others told me I was destined for 12 months of hell like all posh'ei Yisrael (criminals of Israel - Jews who don't observe the commands of the Torah).