River

-Doctor X

I am somewhat curious about how you judge criteria? I have already given you my opinion, to the best of my knowledge.

River

The Gospel of Thomas mentions Jesus making live birds out of clay, Jesus speaking from the cradle, a table falling from the sky with sustenance. This is also mentioned in the Qur'an. The Book of Enoch ( which almost made the final cut to the NT) mentions life originating from water, planetary orbits, deeds/works being balanced in scales, praying with head and face bowed to the ground (muslim prayer format) . These ideas are clearly found in the Qur'an as well. Jewish mysticism or Cabbala describes multiple heavens and Solomon (pbuh) commanding an army of Spirits (jinns). The Qur'an says the same as well.

Magus55

The Gospel of Thomas is a proven forgery afaik.

River

I do not believe I contradicted myself, though you are free to interpret as such. First of all, let me repeat the Qur'an did not come overnight. It was revealed piecemeal over 23 years. It was often sent in relation to the needs or question posed by the companions of the Prophet or his meccan adverseries. Qur'an is derived from the arabic word Iq'ra which translates to Recitation.
It was memorized in the beginning by the Prophets companion and soon they begun to write it down ( when many followers were being killed in war). Archangel Gabriel would meet with the Prophet once every year to see that it was memorized correctly. Thus, some manuscripts of the Qur'an existed before it was finalized. But muslims do not consider it the Qur'an but mere fragments that became the Qur'an. The Prophet knew that his time was near when Gabriel met with him twice ( that year) to discuss the Qur'an. The finalized Qur'an was intended to match the Al-Furqan ( or Heavenly Template Qur'an) in all aspects. Gabriel told the Prophet the exact order in which to organize the "Iqra" (recitations) to make the final Qur'an. The finalized Qur'an was governed by 14 sets of Initials found only in the Qur'an and a very intricate system based on multiples of 19. ( This topic is beyond the scope of the post). And the final Qur'an matches the al-Furqan in every way and was the order mandated by heaven. In arabic very clever juxtapositions of suras and ayats can be seen in the Qur'an.

As, I said earlier you can consider everything I say as contradictions or apologetics, but I speak what I know..... and not what you think I know .

River

proven by Magus55

River

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Doctor X
[B]River:




Now for your next post. . . .



This is, of course, a rather common tactic. You will find it used by the Assyrians as the moved populations about in mass deportations--"we are returning you to your original place and your real gods."




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River says:


This is not a tactic. The life style the Prophet lead was in continuity with the way earlier prophets lead. Many of the meccans suspected the Prophet of having embraced the religion of the Sabeans ( sect of St. John the Baptist) due to ritual prayer and rinsing (baptism). And he had a Qibla, the way Jews prayed in the direction of Jerusalem...the same way Muslims prayed in the direction of Mecca. The Kaaba or the "Cube" found in the Great mosque was long believed to be built by Prophet Abraham and his son Ishmael. This was a well established pre-Islamic myth . No one suspected Prophet Jesus Christ (pbuh) of this "common tactic" when he stated " I have come not to destroy the law ..but to fulfill"......If you studied the life of Prophet Muhammad closely you might be able to see his intentions .

River

Some myths are true and some are false. Some are confirmed others not yet. Hence the definition of myth. But all myths serve a purpose.

River

The Qur'an is unique and special. It is arguably the most influential text in human history. It is single-handedly responsible for "freezing " the whole of the arabic language. It is unanimously believed to be of the finest arabic tongue by both arab muslims and christians. It is the first mass-produced book in human history. It introduced concepts that were millenia ahead of its time. That women should have inheritence and the right to divorce ( unfortunately the islamic world today is corrupt, awaiting its awakening). Islam never recognized the concept of race, a revolutionary concept (and affirmed by anthropology and human genome). It inspired a wave of doctors, scientists, philosophers, when Europe was still in its Dark Age. The Qur'an set the foundations for the worlds first trans-continental empire that lasted for 1100 years.


The Qur'an although not a scientific book ( i repeat " not a scientific book"..for all those antsy polemicists) is replete with "signs" that have been confirmed many things in the 20th century. It speaks of the Big Bang ( in laymen terms) , expansion of the universe, something that resembles what we know as the "Big Crunch". It speaks of the Boiling over of oceans towards the end of time, the extinction of the sun. It also talks about delicate concepts like plants having gender!


In terms of Archaelogy, the lost city of Uber was found using the Qur'anic narrative. The Qur'an does a correction of the Biblical narrative of the Flood. The Qur'an speaks of a regional flood. How is this imaginable, if Prophet Muhammad wrote the Qur'an? The Bible says the universe created in 7 days....while the Qur'an says the universe was created in 6 ERAS and in gradual stages. How did Prophet Muhammad correct the Bible , from an archaelogical stand point. The Qur'an concept of Haman matches exactly what archaelogy uncovered ( rather than the biblical concept)


You honestly believe me to think for one second that the Quran is not special or " as special". I would be a fool to say that.

River

Qur'an was revealed 1400 years ago to the Comforter, Prophet Muhammad ( may peace and blessings be upon him). It was Revealed piecemeal by ArchAngel Gabriel. Is it possible for a Scripture that was revealed piecemeal to have such a precise statistical count of apparent polarities??? Can human conscientious design produce what is deemed the highest linguistic perfection as well as striking proportionate measures???


Check out these amazing statistics!

NUMBER OF TIMES THE FOLLOWING WORDS ARE REPEATED IN QURAN
==================================================
=======




Adam= 25 times
Jesus (2nd Adam) = 25 times

al-donyah (the present life) 115 times
al-aakehrah (life after death) 115 times


al-malaekah (angels) 88 times
al-shayateen (devils) 88 times


al-hayah (life) 145 times
al-mout (death) 145 times


al-nafaa (good doing) 50 times
al-fasaad (bad doing) 50 times


eblees (the Satan) : 11 times
esteazah min eblees (pray to Allah to avoid the satan) 11 times


el-moseebah (a disaster) 75 times
el-shokr (thanking Allah) 75 times


el-infaq (spending money for Allah) 73 times
el-redda (satisfaction) 73 times


el-dhallon (people who lost the write way if Islam) 17 times
el-mouta (dead people) 17 times


el-moslmoon (Muslims) 41 times
el-jehad (fighting in the name of Allah ) 41 times


el-zahab (gold) 8 times
el-taraf (prosperity) 8 times


el-sehr (magic) 60 times
el-fetnah (I am not sure how to translate this one but the meaning
is: fitnah is when a problem starts between a family / group /
nation and they start fighting or working against each others) 60
times


el-zakah (giving poor) 32 times
el-barakah (Allah blessing) 32 times


el-aqal (the brain) 44 times
el-noor (the light) 44 times


el-lesan (the tongue) 25 times
el-mouezah (breaching) 25 times


el-raghbah (wishes) 8 times
el-rahabah (the fear of Allah) 8 times


el-jahr (expressing something) 16 times
el-alanyeah (announcing something) 16 times


el-sheddah (Bad times , a test from Allah) 114 times
el-sabr (being patient) 114 times


Mohammed (PBUH) 4 times.
el-shareeah (Islamic Law ) 4 times


el-rajol (man) 24 times
el-maraah (women) 24 times


el-salah (prayer) 5 times
[Muslims pray 5x a day]


el-shahr (the month) 12 times


el-bahr (sea) 32 times
el-barr (land) 13 times


sea = 32/(32+13) = 32/45 = 71.1% of the earth
land = 13/(32+13) = 13/45 = 28.8% of the earth



In case you are wondering...the earth is not really 75% water as popculture dictates. I've also checked every anti-islamic website to see if any of these figures are debated. They are not. Thats unusual, considering how antsy and opportunistic these polemicists tend to be.

lpetrich

River:
Who said the Qur'an is a science textbook? certainly not me. However, it does contain numerous scientific phenomena that have been confirmed in the 20 th century. The Qur'an is a book of " Signs".

So what? If you are going to advertise Koranic science in Maurice Bucaille fashion, then I'm going to evaluate it in that fashion.

(the Koran as a book of guidance...)

If Koranic science is so great, then one wonders why the Koran does not provide "guidance" on how to do various things that are important for doing science. For example, it could describe a controlled experiment for determining how much water a plant will need. Or it could describe how a reasonable hypothesis or prediction must be falsifiable.

River:
You are humorous and quite silly. How can you place descent with modification in simple terms so the audience wouldnt get frustrated in an ancient Scripture. It is something that scientists of modern times hasnt mastered.

As if an omnipotent being couldn't do that. Furthermore, the idea of descent with modification is rather easy to depict in low-tech terms. As is natural selection. Biologist Thomas Huxley commented about the idea "How stupid of me not to have thought of that!"

In fact, the idea of artificial selection was understood at least as far back as Plato, who proposed that the leaders of his Republic perform selective breeding on that society's citizens, in the fashion that farmers do with their livestock.