diana

A little over a year ago, I met my (now) financial advisor and his wife. They are both very good, gentle people, and I quickly became quite attached to them.

The wife (Eva), works as his receptionist and had occasion to speak with me over the telephone before she and I actually met. When we did meet, she told me immediately that she was very impressed with my strength and self-confidence--even over the telephone--and wanted to know where I got it.

She explained that their daughter was trying to get into an exclusive college, had a 4.1 GPA, had done community service, etc....the only thing she was concerned about (the daughter, that is) was making a good impression at the interview. Eva had mentioned me to her after speaking with me on the phone, and said she would ask me where I got my self-confidence when we met.

I was flattered, of course. I also wasn't sure what to say. I explained that I'd been taught to stand up for myself, to take responsibility for my own actions (whether I did well or not), and I'd learned over the years that I have just as much to offer the world as the next person, and I had confidence in that. I also have done many years of martial arts training, and I know I can take care of myself physically. But basically, I go into interviews with the knowledge that they would be lucky to have me working for them, because I know I'm a good employee.

This is essentially what I recommended she tell her daughter: walk into that interview knowing that the college wanted her. Also, if she was truly interested in the college, she'd have some questions for the interviewer about their policies or traditions or whatnot. After all, the college and the student are essentially conducting a business deal; not only does the college need to make sure she's the right recruit, but she needs to make certain that this college would serve her needs, as well.

Eva thanked me profusely for my advice, eventually passed it to her daughter, and--whether with or without my advice--the daughter was accepted to the college.

We maintained a lovely relationship, somewhere between business acquaintances and friends, for the next year. I knew the college their daughter had been accepted into was Pepperdine University, but the subject of religion never surfaced. Then I moved.

I gave them my e-mail address for business reasons, but also because I am fond of them, and didn't mind them having it.

Today, I received the following e-mail from Eva:

(edited for formatting)

I replied simply:

Old Man

Wouldn't it be fairer to say that you trust to your blessings, gifts, health, wealth, legal system, feeling of security, etc?

But if any one these were taken away in a big way, which one day will happen, it seems to me that then you will probably be open to changing your point of view.

Trusting to one's self is succumbing to a temptation which you know cannot be justfied on the basis of objective evidence. Without all these social props that are external to yourself, and only partially under one's control, life would be radically different.

Think of the people with motor-neurone disease. Would you still "trust to yourself" if you had it?

diana

Greetings, Old Man. Welcome to II.

No. I am well aware that I have any of the above only because I've been lucky enough to be born in a country where they were possibly, into circumstances where I could gain them, and they haven't been taken from me. I am not naive enough to believe that I will have any of these things tomorrow--not even my knowledge, education and experiences. I could be hit on the head with a two-by-four overnight and as a result, drool on myself and crap my diaper until I die.

I appreciate my health now because I'm all too aware that it could be gone forever in an instant. I appreciate my wealth (such as it is) because I've been without before and may be again. I don't have much faith in the US legal system. I do everything I can to ensure I'm capable of taking care of myself because I don't trust in any feeling of security. In short, the only thing I have, for certain, is me now.

I think it would be fair to say I trust in myself.

Au contraire. I learned to trust in myself based on personal experience, which is as objective as such "evidence" gets.

Bien sur. At which time, I would trust in my own abilities to deal with whatever life gave me. But still, I am all I have.

Sure. I would trust in myself to stab myself in the eye with a fork as I attempted to eat, lurch into walls as I tried to get to the toilet, and...wait. I already do those things.

Seriously, though...yes. I would still trust in myself, as far as I was able, even though I'd be forced to depend upon someone else to take care of me.

d

SanDiegoAtheist

For myself (who would have given a similar answer to diana), the answer would be no. I trust in myself, in my ability to reason, and my judgement of what appears to be truth in and around me. All those other things that you mention are rather transient, something that I certainly do know.

Bad assumption. Not that I wouldn't be open to changing my view, but that I certainly would not do so based on circumstance which I already understand may change, and which would not introduce any new type of evidence.

Who else do I have to trust in?

I'm certain that there are other people I could put trust in, but it takes trusting in my OWN ability and judgement to make that call. Trusting myself comes first.

If this is some veiled argument to trust in God (which, having heard similar lines of attack before I believe it to be), I'm afraid you perhaps are looking at the wrong end of the telescope. After all - this would be a God that had (assuming God's existance as a hypothetical) AFFLICTED me with motor-neuron disease or some such.

I'm afraid I'd have very little trust in any being (let along an omnipotent God) which was capable of inflicting such suffering without justifying that suffering to the person on whom it was inflicted.

Would YOU trust a gang of thugs that appeared out of nowhere and beat you senseless? Presumably not.

Cheers,

The San Diego Atheist

wildernesse

I don't know that you can be so certain that any of those things will be taken away in a big way during a person's lifetime. Things may change, yes--but change is not in and of itself a negative quality.

I think that even if, God forbid, diana were faced with a major change in her life she would be able to rely upon herself to meet those obstacles head-on, and with more self-awareness than most. (IMO, of course, I'm more than certain that diana doesn't need anyone to speak for her.)

Anywho--I was just a little perplexed that you would assume that a negative change in fortune is assured for everyone. And, diana, your reply reminds me that I need to work on responding to my friends who spam (ahh!) with respect and honesty. I'm too nice/wimpy, and then aggravation builds up and I'm too mean! sigh.

--tibac

HaysooChreesto!

Isn't this an obviously fabricated tale? I get stuff like this on occasion too, and as recently as last week I became very irked by one in particular. I contemplated sending an indignant response, but then thought better of it.
There's no need to indulge someone in this kind of crap.

diana

I assumed he was implying a worst case scenario. And I do think of my life in that respect. It helps me stay grounded and carpe diem.

But I appreciate your input. Thank you. Yes. That's it in a nutshell, from my viewpoint.

You strike me as such a gentle, thoughtful soul. Surely this isn't that much of a bane of yours.

As for me, it's been a long hard road to learn to be kind when I've been offended (often by someone's presumption). It was easy with Eva. She really is the sweetest person I think I've ever met. She could give my grandmother a run for her money.

d

Old Man

Thank you, Diana.

Not sure. I think the inference is that all you have, and all you own, is yourself, and on that point I would agree. Since you also seem to agree (see your comment below), we seem to be in agreement.

What you are infering here is that you trust to your own judgment, in your own ability to make the best decisions. But that begs the question, of what are the best decisions? Those that decrease dependency on others? That is often a good thing, to be sure. But you have already agreed that such things are not inherently part of what you own, but only owned by derivation from a legal system external to you, which may disappear or decide to deprive you of those things. Or your health may deprive you of the ability to enjoy them and force you into a state of dependency.

But suppose the very best decisions, also lead to "avoidance of death"? Would you, could you, do you, trust to your judgment, and your abilities, to make those decisions?

That is the key. Dependence. Everyone is dependent on everyone else. Life is dependency from cradle to grave.

Within the network of subsisting dependencies, one is free to exercise one's own judgment. And trusting to one's own judgment is ultimately something no-one can escape, because one's judgment is a part of you. One cannot escape owning one's own judgments (though the legal system may provide remedies where those judgments led to loss and were based on misrepresentations by others).

So possibly you were at cross-purposes in your email correspondence. Whilst you correspondee was referring to God being the ultimate provider behind all dependencies, you were referring to necessary faith in one's own judgments, which whilst I do not disagree, does not seem to be related to the point that your correspondee was making.

Dibble Helix

You know Diana, what bugs me most about your friend's e-mail is the undercurrent of worship of worldly wealth. It's so ... ah .. un-Christian.

dibble

Boro Nut

Several years ago, a Scot’s friend of mine and his wife were invited to spend the weekend at the husband's employer's home. The husband's employer was also Scottish, and infamous for his thrift.

As the three of them were about to enter a kebab shop, my friend dropped an old penny on the floor. The boss was walking slightly ahead of him and his wife and heard the clink. He stopped suddenly, looking down on the pavement for a long, silent moment, then reached down and picked up the penny. He held it up and smiled, then put it in his sporran as if he had found a great treasure. How absurd! What need did this man have for a single penny? Why would he even take the time to stop and pick it up?

Throughout the journey home, the entire scene nagged at my friend, who could not enjoy his kebab. It was his fucking penny after all. Finally, he could stand it no longer. He causally mentioned that the penny was his and he would like it back.

His boss held the penny up in front of him. ‘See that?’ said the employer, ‘See what that says there? In God We Trust, son! In God We Bloody Trust. You know what that means?’
‘Not really’ replied my friend.
‘It means it’s mine the noo’ said the manager.
At that, my friend snatched at the penny, and an unseemly struggle ensued. Neither was prepared to give way and they strove mightily against each other, each tugging at the penny. Chips were spilled and Polis called.

When I was out shopping today, I found a penny on the sidewalk. I stopped and picked it up, and realized that I had been worrying and fretting in my mind about things I can not change. I read the words, "In God We Trust," and had to laugh. Yes, God, I get the message. Sometimes, you may find a whole pound. Sometimes, only an old penny. But if you’re really lucky, you just might get to puff out your chest with pride and say "I was there when they invented copper wire you know".

Boro Nut