Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Justin70 · 04-01-2003, 08:33 PM

I read Peter Duesberg's book "Inventing the AIDS Virus" several years ago. I sat down and talked with a friend recently about virus origins and remembered what evidence Duesberg gave for HIS theory of 'AIDS'. I remember his book being VERY well written (IMHO) and I recently did a search on the Internet for any counter-arguments to his position. I'm a very open minded guy and really wanted to know if what he had to say was worth anything.

I couldn't find anything that refuted anything he said. Is there anything? Does this guy have any footing? I'm no biologist or virologist but what he says in his book makes a lot of sense.

Comments? I'd really like to know what people here think.

Justin

MadKally · 04-01-2003, 09:05 PM

Quote:

posted by Justin 70:
I'm a very open minded guy and really wanted to know if what he had to say was worth anything.

No.

Jesse · 04-01-2003, 09:29 PM

I haven't studied this issue, but here's a short article which addresses some of the main lines of argument of HIV/AIDS denialists:

http://www.aegis.com/topics/mdelaney.html

MadKally · 04-01-2003, 11:38 PM

Inventing the AIDS virus or not?

HIV Controversy

Quote:

Peter Duesberg was one of the world's most respected authorities on retroviruses. He had garnered many major grants for his work and enjoyed an elite status among world scientists, that is until he announced his belief that the human immunodeficiency virus does not cause AIDS. Now he is basically an outcast, along with a number of similarly minded scientists who feel that the HIV connection is not an open-and-shut case.

I was wondering why I couldn't find any information on this man or his book on Medscape or any other scientific site I use for reference. I finally went to google and found it buried on a chiropractic site. I think it would not be worth discussing on a medical website.

livius drusus · 04-02-2003, 03:46 AM

Hi Justin70 -

Here's and earlier debate on the topic you might find illuminating.

MadKally · 04-02-2003, 07:25 AM

Quote:

posted by Hairi in the old thread:
The good doctor has since changed his position.
and now is inline with the mainstream medical establishment
view of HIV.

I noticed that. I found him on a not so mainstream chiropractic site.

Kally

keyser_soze · 04-02-2003, 07:31 AM

I cannot believe that crackpot theory(I say theory loosely, because you really need to provide information about your theory to make it a theory) is still making the rounds...I wonder if he ever tried the experiment?

keyser_soze · 04-02-2003, 07:33 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by MadKally
I noticed that. I found him on a not so mainstream chiropractic site.

Kally

You mean there is a MAINSTREAM chiropractic site?

MadKally · 04-02-2003, 07:41 AM

Symptom Management and Palliative Care in HIV/AIDS

Sande Gracia Jones, PhD, ARNP, ACRN, C, CS, BC

Quote:

Symptom management has been identified as one of the top priorities for HIV/AIDS nursing research in the 21st century.[1] The use of highly active antiretroviral therapy (HAART) has dramatically reduced AIDS-related mortality and morbidity.[2,3] Thus, as patients with HIV/AIDS live longer with their illness, symptom management becomes an increasingly important health issue.[4,5] Symptoms, including fatigue and sleep disturbances, and HIV disease and HIV treatment-related issues, such as anemia and pain management, can cause a deterioration in both physical and psychological well-being and reduce adherence to medication therapy.[6-9] Authorities in AIDS care discussed these issues during several sessions at the 15th Annual Association of Nurses in AIDS Care (ANAC) Conference.

Symptom Management: Fatigue
Fatigue is among the most common and distressing symptoms in patients with HIV/AIDS, affecting 20% to 60% of patients[10]; it is a chronic symptom that is not merely a manifestation of depression.[11,12] HIV-related fatigue has been described as "more than just feeling tired; it's overwhelming and bone-melting."[13] HIV-infected patients with fatigue complain of weakness, loss of energy, sleepiness, tiredness, exhaustion, and an inability to get enough rest, all of which affect quality of life.[10]

Causes of Fatigue
Potential causes of HIV-related fatigue include anemia; lack of rest or exercise; improper or inadequate diet; psychological stress, including depression and anxiety; the use of recreational substances; abnormalities of the thyroid gland; hypogonadism; infections; adverse effects of medications; sleep disturbances; and fever.[10] Other possible physiologic causes are low CD4 cell count, impaired liver function, and cortisol abnormalities.

From Medscape for nursing professionals

Quote:

posted by Justin70:
and I recently did a search on the Internet for any counter-arguments to his position.

I don't understand why anyone would bother with a counter-argument. That would really be a waste of time.

MadKally · 04-02-2003, 07:48 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by keyser_soze
You mean there is a MAINSTREAM chiropractic site?

oops! My bad.

edit: I was talking about the wrong guy anyway when responding to a post by Hairi in some old thread. But yes, Mr Peter was found on a chiro site.

Kally

04-01-2003, 08:33 PM	#1
Justin70 Regular Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Vancouver, WA Posts: 314	The Myth of AIDS? I read Peter Duesberg's book "Inventing the AIDS Virus" several years ago. I sat down and talked with a friend recently about virus origins and remembered what evidence Duesberg gave for HIS theory of 'AIDS'. I remember his book being VERY well written (IMHO) and I recently did a search on the Internet for any counter-arguments to his position. I'm a very open minded guy and really wanted to know if what he had to say was worth anything. I couldn't find anything that refuted anything he said. Is there anything? Does this guy have any footing? I'm no biologist or virologist but what he says in his book makes a lot of sense. Comments? I'd really like to know what people here think. Justin

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04-01-2003, 09:29 PM	#3
Jesse Moderator - Science Discussions Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Providence, RI, USA Posts: 9,908	I haven't studied this issue, but here's a short article which addresses some of the main lines of argument of HIV/AIDS denialists: http://www.aegis.com/topics/mdelaney.html

04-02-2003, 03:46 AM	#5
livius drusus Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Selva Oscura Posts: 4,120	Hi Justin70 - Here's and earlier debate on the topic you might find illuminating.

04-02-2003, 07:31 AM	#7
keyser_soze Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: god's judge (pariah) Posts: 1,281	I cannot believe that crackpot theory(I say theory loosely, because you really need to provide information about your theory to make it a theory) is still making the rounds...I wonder if he ever tried the experiment?

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