Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Muffinstuffer · 05-19-2003, 05:49 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Starboy
Rhea, I have no idea what is going on here. If the purported events as described by Muffinstuffer did take place then his prayer was certainly unobtrusive and innocuous and I would say that the teacher was out of line. Unless of course there were extenuating circumstances that Muffinstuffer is not sharing with us. Certainly it would not surprise me if there were not some cases of people being denied unobtrusive and innocuous prayer in public schools but I suspect it is not numerous else I would have heard of at least one or two notable court cases surrounding such denials.

I hope Muffinstuffer is not the kind of proselytizer you think he is. The Christians here have been working so hard on me to get me to think that they may be decent people that it would certainly dash such thoughts if I were to find that Muffinstuffer was just another liar for Jesus.

Starboy

Sorry for the delay, y'all...my wife graduated from college this weekend, and then my grandfather decided his time was up for this earth, and he's slowly on his way out, so I've been a bit busy.

Let me attempt to clear up some of the questions about the whole prayer thing. First, it happened some years ago, when I was still in high school. I'm 27 now, so I'm NOT in high school.

I was in study hall and had completed my homework. I asked the teacher if it was okay to read and she said sure. I pulled out my book (I think it was the Stand) and began to read.

Shortly thereafter my buddy Mike - also a Christian - leaned over and asked me to pray for something. I forget exactly what it was, because as I said, it was some years ago. But anyways, I said sure.

He and I were in the back corner of the classroom, and I just folded my hands and ducked my head and started to pray. I was NOT doing it out loud, and NO one else knew, considering ALL of them asked what happened after class.

Well, in about 10 seconds the teacher (I was not aware of her exact religious beliefs, but I know they weren't too sympathetic to Christianity, as I found out after this episode) tapped me on the shoulder. I said "Yes?" She said "Are you praying?" I said yes. She said "You're not allowed to do that. If you want to conduct some sort of religious meeting after school that's fine, but refrain from doing this during school." I said OK, NOT being aware of the fact that this was/is something I CAN do so long as I'm not bothering anyone else, which I was not. I know, because I asked afterwards, and everyone essentially said "We didn't know anything about it, we don't care, that's cool."

All this being said, it was near the end of the semester, and it was one of the last times I would have this teacher, so I didn't make a stink about it. Besides, as I said, I wasn't really aware of my rights. Later on I became aware, but by that time, I did not have her for a teacher anymore, so it was not a huge deal.

Muffinstuffer · 05-19-2003, 05:55 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Opera Nut
The Christians I have known, their so called "Help" consisted of telling me I was a worthless sinful piece of shit, when I asked them to help me find a job since I was unemployed. Or alternatively, for the church to pay us for the work we did for them (my BF mixed and mastered an entire gospel concert to CD for them). We never got paid --the CD is hiding in his file cabinet.

Their alleged "Help" only made me suicidal and unemployed.

Goddamn hypocrites.
:banghead:

Thanks. I love you too.

In all seriousness, I'd like to think that I am NOT the same as every other person out there who is a Christian. Just because I am a Christian does not mean I am devoid of intelligence or common sense (just rationality and logic - heh heh), and it does not mean that I am on a VENDETTA to convert everyone around me.

abe smith · 05-19-2003, 06:02 AM

Gosh; this thread has become more & more boring --- "to me", of course. I'm outa here.... I'm not INTERESTED in hearing anyone "witness". Bye.

Muffinstuffer · 05-19-2003, 06:40 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by abe smith
Gosh; this thread has become more & more boring --- "to me", of course. I'm outa here.... I'm not INTERESTED in hearing anyone "witness". Bye.

Well Gosh, I'm not here to witness. I was here to discuss the original topic, although it's gone on more tangents than Carter had pills. *L*

Muffinstuffer · 05-19-2003, 06:51 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Starboy
Rhea, I guess I am not devious enough. It never occured to me that Muffin might be the victum of another fundies intolerance. If that were so it would be too rich indeed.

Starboy

No, I'm fairly sure she was NOT another fundie.

Radorth · 05-19-2003, 08:08 AM

Quote:

Radorth, I knew you were baiting me,

At that point I wasn't talking to you, nor did I have you in mind. Sorry. I'm afraid the thread isn't revolving around you.

Rad

Radorth · 05-19-2003, 08:16 AM

Quote:

Besides if you are for separation of church and state then this should be a non-issue.

Precisely the point. So why are you arguing about what we agree on- that kids should be allowed to pray together on public property? You have clearly read too much not only into my posts, but Sabine's. And now you're questioning Muffinstuffer's story as well, which no other skeptic is doing here.

I don't suppose it occurs to you that you might be a little irrational at times, due to your own biases- just as you claim we are?

Rad

Rational BAC · 05-19-2003, 09:20 AM

Of course I could be wrong----That sometimes happens to old pharts like me.--------

But it seems like I posted something on this thread that got deleted for some reason or other.

I have never known myself to be terribly controversial---of course that is just my opinion.

Again, my memory could be bad. Moderator?

Rational BAC · 05-19-2003, 09:26 AM

Never mind moderator----------Just my dotage showing I am afraid.

I found what I remember posting on a different thread. My bad.

That anything got deleted arbitrarily on this forum would surprise me anyway. A lot of forums delete things they do not like------but not this one so far, or at least as far as I can tell.

That is one of the things I love about this forum--

Keep it up.

And ---------sorry about that.

Muffinstuffer · 05-19-2003, 09:27 AM

I'm lying low till the smoke clears.

Edit: Oh wait, it already did. Cool beans.

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05-19-2003, 06:02 AM	#153
abe smith Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: springfield, MA. USA Posts: 2,482	Gosh; this thread has become more & more boring --- "to me", of course. I'm outa here.... I'm not INTERESTED in hearing anyone "witness". Bye.

05-19-2003, 09:20 AM	#158
Rational BAC Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Tampa Bay area Posts: 3,471	Of course I could be wrong----That sometimes happens to old pharts like me.-------- But it seems like I posted something on this thread that got deleted for some reason or other. I have never known myself to be terribly controversial---of course that is just my opinion. Again, my memory could be bad. Moderator?

05-19-2003, 09:26 AM	#159
Rational BAC Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Tampa Bay area Posts: 3,471	Never mind moderator----------Just my dotage showing I am afraid. I found what I remember posting on a different thread. My bad. That anything got deleted arbitrarily on this forum would surprise me anyway. A lot of forums delete things they do not like------but not this one so far, or at least as far as I can tell. That is one of the things I love about this forum-- Keep it up. And ---------sorry about that.

05-19-2003, 09:27 AM	#160
Muffinstuffer Regular Member Join Date: May 2003 Location: Mountain Home, AR Posts: 199	I'm lying low till the smoke clears. Edit: Oh wait, it already did. Cool beans.

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