Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Valentine Pontifex · 08-07-2002, 03:49 PM

It must be true, the brilliant folks at Answers in Genesis say it so:

<a href="http://www.answersingenesis.org/docs2002/0807tj.asp" target="_blank">http://www.answersingenesis.org/docs2002/0807tj.asp</a>

:-)

Kevin Dorner · 08-07-2002, 04:09 PM

And should an AiG member declare that the Earth moves, will they show him the instruments of torture until he recants?

This "earth is the centre of the universe" stuff sounds awfully familiar.

I guess they have to deny that the earth orbits the sun, because as the earth is moving, the sun is the clearly the motionless centre of the universe (the centre of mass of the earth-sun pair is under the sun's surface... only for Jupiter is it outside the sun.)

So since the sun is the real centre of the universe, I guess Gawd made it all for the soon-to-be-discovered Very Hot Helium Plasma People that we will be subservient to.

And somewhere, a billion light-years away, a young fundamentalist Zergian has just finished reading a similar essay on Answers In Gra'va'xont. He touches the five-pointed Zergifix around one of his necks while mystically happy that Zerg made the whole universe just for the chosen people, the Zergians... I mean, it must be, because all galaxies are redshifted from his perpective too.

[ August 07, 2002: Message edited by: Kevin Dorner ]

Late_Cretaceous · 08-07-2002, 04:50 PM

As every Canadian knows full well - Toronto is the center of the universe.

Valentine Pontifex · 08-07-2002, 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Late_Cretaceous:
As every Canadian knows full well - Toronto is the center of the universe.

That is absolutely false.

Mississauga is the center of the universe.

:-)

tgamble · 08-07-2002, 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by LordValentine:
It must be true, the brilliant folks at Answers in Genesis say it so:

<a href="http://www.answersingenesis.org/docs2002/0807tj.asp" target="_blank">http://www.answersingenesis.org/docs2002/0807tj.asp</a>:-)

This is gonna sound pretty stupid but just why exactly are their claims wrong? I mean, aside from the obvious fallacy of that stupid probability argument.

Hey, how about that. Darwin is responsible for communism AND capitalism.

Quote:

This groundbreaking paper is featured in the latest TJ, 16(2), which has just been mailed to subscribers. Also included in this issue:

Plant kingdoms: major problems for evolution
Ancient salt: entombed life from a past age?
Dinosaur graveyards: Ceratopsian herds in watery catastrophe Darwin and extreme ruthless capitalism

Quote:

Subscribe to TJ today. Do you know teachers, professionals, academics, and students who could be helped by TJ? Why not give a gift subscription? You could also donate a copy to your college or university library (but make first that sure it will be accepted).

TJ. Truely Junk!

Anyone get this newsletter?

Camaban · 08-07-2002, 05:59 PM

y'know..

there are times...

just...

times...

when I think "By Christ, our gravitational effect on everything else is pretty bloody impressive for something as small as we are, isn't it?"

Which leads me to two conclusions.

1. God put a lot of effort into the earth's gravity
2. that millions of tiny Angels are making sure we don't collapse from the sheer gravitational pull, which means that god must love us even more for going to the effort to stop us from dieing in really nasty ways.

Autonemesis · 08-07-2002, 06:04 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by tgamble:
This is gonna sound pretty stupid but just why exactly are their claims wrong?

The universe looks the same for any observer at any point. The redshift quantization effect, if it is real, is irrelevant. If redshift increased smoothly with distance, they'd make the same mistake by noting that redshifts near Earth are near zero, therefore Earth must be near the center of the expanding Universe.

But any other observer at any other point in the cosmos would see the same effects, and could make the same mistake if evolution was as unkind to that observer as it has been to the folks at AIG.

tgamble · 08-07-2002, 06:11 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kind Bud:


The universe looks the same for any observer at any point. The redshift quantization effect, if it is real, is irrelevant. If redshift increased smoothly with distance, they'd make the same mistake by noting that redshifts near Earth are near zero, therefore Earth must be near the center of the expanding Universe.

But any other observer at any other point in the cosmos would see the same effects, and could make the same mistake if evolution was as unkind to that observer as it has been to the folks at AIG.

Thanks. One qustion (for now anyway). If the universe is expanding, without boundries, how can there be a center?

Autonemesis · 08-07-2002, 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by tgamble:
Thanks. One qustion (for now anyway). If the universe is expanding, without boundries, how can there be a center?

Where is the center of the surface of an expanding balloon? I don't mean the center of the space enclosed by the balloon, but the geometric center of the spherical surface of the balloon?

It doesn't have a center, or any edges. Yet it is finite and bounded. Any point on the surface of the balloon (ignoring the nozzle) is equivalent to any other point. The Universe is like that, but its shape is more complex than the two dimensional surface of the balloon.

Valentine Pontifex · 08-07-2002, 06:53 PM

How are they wrong?

Well for one thing AiG is claiming that it is a fact that red-shifts are quantized and that astronomers (evilutionist type of course) can't find an explanation. The reality is that only a handful of astronomers think that and they are not YECs (of course). This is an extreme misrepresentation.

08-07-2002, 03:49 PM	#1
Valentine Pontifex Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Orion Arm of the Milky Way Galaxy Posts: 3,092	We are at the center of the universe It must be true, the brilliant folks at Answers in Genesis say it so: <a href="http://www.answersingenesis.org/docs2002/0807tj.asp" target="_blank">http://www.answersingenesis.org/docs2002/0807tj.asp</a> :-)

08-07-2002, 04:09 PM	#2
Kevin Dorner Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada Posts: 762	And should an AiG member declare that the Earth moves, will they show him the instruments of torture until he recants? This "earth is the centre of the universe" stuff sounds awfully familiar. I guess they have to deny that the earth orbits the sun, because as the earth is moving, the sun is the clearly the motionless centre of the universe (the centre of mass of the earth-sun pair is under the sun's surface... only for Jupiter is it outside the sun.) So since the sun is the real centre of the universe, I guess Gawd made it all for the soon-to-be-discovered Very Hot Helium Plasma People that we will be subservient to. And somewhere, a billion light-years away, a young fundamentalist Zergian has just finished reading a similar essay on Answers In Gra'va'xont. He touches the five-pointed Zergifix around one of his necks while mystically happy that Zerg made the whole universe just for the chosen people, the Zergians... I mean, it must be, because all galaxies are redshifted from his perpective too. [ August 07, 2002: Message edited by: Kevin Dorner ]</p>

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08-07-2002, 04:50 PM	#3
Late_Cretaceous Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Alberta Posts: 1,049	As every Canadian knows full well - Toronto is the center of the universe.

08-07-2002, 05:59 PM	#6
Camaban Regular Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Australia Posts: 473	y'know.. there are times... just... times... when I think "By Christ, our gravitational effect on everything else is pretty bloody impressive for something as small as we are, isn't it?" Which leads me to two conclusions. 1. God put a lot of effort into the earth's gravity 2. that millions of tiny Angels are making sure we don't collapse from the sheer gravitational pull, which means that god must love us even more for going to the effort to stop us from dieing in really nasty ways.

08-07-2002, 06:53 PM	#10
Valentine Pontifex Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Orion Arm of the Milky Way Galaxy Posts: 3,092	How are they wrong? Well for one thing AiG is claiming that it is a fact that red-shifts are quantized and that astronomers (evilutionist type of course) can't find an explanation. The reality is that only a handful of astronomers think that and they are not YECs (of course). This is an extreme misrepresentation.

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