Kuu

Maybe in America but not neccessarliy in Australia. I have said before that people knew he was abusing me and one social worker blamed me for it all. The police saw me bashed but all they did was to tell him to stop hitting me and take the guns out of the house (which he was allowed to pick up again the next day). This is on a day when I begged them to charge him.

One of my neighbours was bashed by her husband. The police were called by neighbours. The police 'allowed' her to drive herself to the hospital for treatment (they took the keys from the husband). She had to drive herself to hospital with head injuries. The husband (who did not live with her) was not charged.

Look at what Australian law did about that case of the 15 year old Aboriginal girl who was sold and raped. The law said what he this was acceptable within his culture. Despite the fact that she was living in Australia - which is a Christian country - the law decided it was OK for her to be raped and bashed.

What is the use of having laws if they are ignored and not enforced? And in the case of aboriginal women those laws are thrown away.

Genghis Pwn

AGAIN, this thread is about how women are treated under the Islam, not about other religions, not about other countries. The point of this thread is not to compare Islam to any other societies or religions, but to examine the ongoing atrocities that are commited against women under Islam and Sharia law

Yes, I care about the suffering of women around the world. But this thread is about one thing. Not 10 things.

Whoever asked me about Afghanistan, I was there until March, when I came here to Spain. Pictures? I have hundreds. If you are calling me a liar, let's wager. Any amount you want.

I care enough about women in Islam to risk my life to go to Afghanistan and help them. I have many friends in the Ministries there and working in womens' rights NGOs.

Now, can we PLEASE discuss how women are treated in Islam? Is that too much to ask here? I can't believe how god damn hard it is here just to start a conversation on a clearly defined subject. Sheesh!

Kuu

Just because you are the thread starter doesn't mean we have to only discuss what you want to discuss. You only want everyone to agree with you. You don't want discussion at all.

You haven't answered my point that not all Islamic women are abused, not all Islamic men are abusive, not all Islamic countires habe abusive laws (Turkey has reasonable laws concerning women for example). It seems you don't want to even aknowledge any of these facts as they don't fit with you idea that Islam is totally evil.

Timberline

This is the kind of response I was talking about, and I just don't understand it. If someone writes critically about apartheid, does it mean they only feel sorry for blacks if they are in South Africa? Of course not. It just means they're talking about one topic at one time.

You do have the right to point these things out. But why is the assumption made that a person writing critically of Islam doesn't agree? All of these things seem obvious. No one is disputing them.

I think a case can be made that "Islam" in general--i.e. the writings and traditions associated with Mohammad and the Koran--contribute to the sexism we see in Islamic society today, and the abuse that results. Segregation of any kind, racial or gender-based, provides a breeding ground for discrimination. If you have little or no experience interacting with someone as a human being, you�re less likely to treat them as a human being. You�re more likely to cling to old prejudices. You�re more likely to lack empathy. And some degree of segregation between the sexes appears to be supported by many, perhaps most, Muslims worldwide, whether militant or not, based on those same writings and traditions.

Here's the problem as I see it. If someone speaks about discrimination against women in the Islamic world, they're berated, scolded, or told that they're not allowed to discuss Islam unless they also mention in the very same breath every other example of discrimination against women. If they don't speak out about discrimination against women in the Islamic world, then no one speaks out, and the discrimination continues unchallenged.

Godless Dave

BINGO. And, historically, those societies that closely based their laws on either one of those religious books condone a very high level of violence towards women. Can we all agree on that?

Can we all agree that countries that practice sharia law condone a high level of violence towards women?

Can we all agree that there are many other societies where domestic violence is tolerated or condoned?

(Is someone willing to get the stats from Amnesty International or somewhere and put them in a bar graph?)

Can we all agree that many western societies have made progress in the last 50 years or so towards protecting women from domestic violence? I'm seeing some hands go down...

It just seems like this thread is turning into a lot of people talking past each other, when there are actual issues that could be discussed.

I think it would be more accurate to say that in the Western Hemisphere, a man would be more likely to go to jail for a long time for throwing acid on a woman and her sister than he would in many parts of Africa and the Middle East.

Godless Dave

Thank you! That was worth waiting five pages.

Genghis Pwn

Of course. I didn't think I would have to actually say yes, indeed, you are right about all those things. They are obvious, as Timber pointed out.

Kuu

OK I will drop the issue of the abuse of women in the West (despite the fact that society often condones it)

What I will not drop is the treatment of Aboriginal women under their tribal laws which the legal system of Australia, a Christian country, seems to actually support.

A fifteen year old girl is sold while still a baby, the man pays her off for years, he claims her, she objects, he bashes and rapes her and a white magistrate say 'she knew what was expected of her' therefore it was OK. She is not an isolated case.

Maybe we can agree that the Australia legal system supports the abuse of Aboriginal tribal women just as much as Sharia law supports the abuse of women.

Genghis Pwn

Kuu, I will support your threads on such topics. Go for it.

Godless Dave

Kuu I read about that one case but don't know any of the background, or what further legal action was taken, if any.