Blu

Well to answer the question: where does this "soul" or consciousnes go? I will have to begin by saying energy can change form and travel but it can never cease from existing.

If the "soul" is energy, where is this energy going, if it goes anywhere once it is released from physical form? Are human beings just the grayish, cerbral cortex of our brains?

Aren't we humans just simplifying things a little too much? Look at the earth...look at quantum physics...look at the Universe.... Look at all of this complexity. Are you saying that because the human mind does not yet have the capasity to understand all there is to know about existence does that mean there is nothing else to know?

If you tried to explain to a cave man that space travel was possible if he just had the knowledge and the materials ....do you think the cave man would be willing to believe it or would he crush you with his club?

There is so much more to learn about this Universe and our Human existence. Just look around you.

MrKrinkles

Tercel

If you go back and read what I wrote, you will see that what I wrote was this: "I simply don't see evidence for your theory. I see no reason whatsoever to suppose that consciousness exists anywhere else but the brain." Clearly, I was stating my own view and experience and was not making an absolute statement.

You are the one who used the radio station analogy. Obviously a radio station exists in a certain location and broadcasts its signal to a reciever at another location. If the human consciousness does not exist at certain location and does not broadcast itself to the brain at another location, then I don't understand what the point was of your radio station analogy.

Well, again, what reason is there to suppose that our consciousness existed prior to the formation of our brains? That is the question. The fact that we cannot remember anything prior to the formation of our brains would tend to support the idea that our consciousness did not exist prior to the existence of our brains. The suggestion that we just don't remember is an idea that is impossible to test or demonstrate. I could claim that the entire universe was created two seconds ago, and we just don't remember it happening. We have just been given false memories of our prior lives-yeah, that's the ticket!

Your speculations suggest another question: If human consciousness does not require a brain to exist, what would be the point of having it inhabit a brain at all?

I agree that logic, truth, happiness, and hope exist. However, you are comparing concepts, which exist within material brains, to material objects themselves. They are not analogous. Santa Claus, Allah, thetans, the Invisible Pink Unicorn are all concepts. Are they "nothing" or do they actually exist?

In other words, it does not exist in any form that we have any knowledge or understanding of, but it "exists" nonetheless because, well, because you somehow have knowledge of the unknowable. That is not very convincing.

I know you believe this, I just don't understand why.

I am not aware of anything that occurs in near death experiences that demonstrates the brain and consciousness exist separately.

The point is that yours is a theory which does not fit the facts. It is speculation. You talk about our consciousness existing in some other ill-defined realm, or not really existing in any way that we understand existence. These are claims that can not be examined, tested, demonstrated or genuinely understood.

I understand that Christians and other religous folks need to believe in this mind-brain duality in order for their theologies to make some kind of sense, but I see nothing in the world that supports the notion that the brain and consciousness are separate or can be separated. Efforts to support this idea appear to be ad hoc rationalizations.

Brooks

[ February 20, 2002: Message edited by: MrKrinkles ]</p>

smalso

Nah. There are alternate explainations for nde's that are more plausible. My problem is not so much with what you believe, but with WHY you believe it when you admit there is no good evidence for it. I have asked this of believers in several different religions and their answers are either vague, or sound more like excuses--when they're not getting mad because I asked.