Cojana

member Darth Dane, how can you believe in God and not be afraid of it? 'Fear me,I am thou God,!! seen that? its in the bible,. ever hear of the Halocaust? the TWC towers? the 40 days and 40 nights none-stop rain? and God says its going to fry us this time,its a good thing I only suspect its existence,and I'm terrified of the sonofabitch,! in its perversion,it might hurt someone I love,just to punish me,..you think the devil are evil? his a patsy for God whom created him, the real Evil,...are you married? ever stop to think that your first born are twins? joined together at thier heads? yup. pray God don't do that to you,just for the hell of it,:banghead:

BioBeing

Long winded fool - thats just the problem though, isn't it. If heaven = eternal bliss and hell = eternal torment then everyone in heaven has to either be oblivious to the torment in hell (do you really want to see your spouse/children burning for all of eternity?) or enjoy it.

If everyone is oblivious, then they have become drones.

If everyone thinks it is entertaining to watch loved ones burn, then again - they have become drones and lost all earthly feeling for past loved ones (and I don't really want to go to heaven... )

long winded fool

I don't follow why everyone must be "drones?" You seem to think being a drone is a bad thing, yet aren't there probably things that you're oblivious to now? If you're oblivious to something, does it make you a drone? If you're a drone here on earth, why wouldn't you rather be a drone in heaven? You could be a drone who experiences pain, or a drone who doesn't, right?

BioBeing

Imagine for a minute you are a virtual saint. You are a totally selfless person who dies and goes to heaven. But, on Earth, you have a child, whom you loved very very much, who does something that just tips their balance towards hell. They die and go to hell.

Now - would you prefer

1. To lose all knowledge of ever had a child, and be oblivious to their fate
   OR
2. To watch them be eternally tortured
   OR
3. Maybe all becomes clear to you, and you understand now that they must suffer endlessly because they did take God's name in vain one time too many.

But do you think you would be truly happy with #3 knowing someone you had once loved was in ETERNAL torment? If you took one of my kids away from me to torture them for even a second (and I knew it), I would fight you tooth and nail. The only way you'd get them would be to never let me know they were even gone... brainwash me or turn me into a "drone". I'm sorry, but that's just how I view the idea of heaven and hell.

BadBadBad

Oblivious: 1 : lacking remembrance, memory, or mindful attention
2 : lacking active conscious knowledge or awareness -- usually used with of or to.

Sounds like heaven to me alright. Words like consciousness, memory, reality, awareness, etc etc have no meaning with respect to heaven. It's really foolish to speculate one way or the other. Once you step into the realm of fantasy land, anything is possible.

I think I'm converting to Islam. They have a better heaven. All those virgins will help keep my mind off all my infidel friends roasting in Hell!

Cojana

Member on responce, there are only one way individuals can not care for the confort of others, and the bible hints obviously that in heaven you lose your individuality and become sheep on boundless pastures, mooning over God whom will be your shepherd. sheep don't care for one another, in Hell you'll realize this,futility are part of hell's prosecution, 'here I am roasting, and my mother are a fuching sheep in heaven' alas,woe are me,mercy!!

BadBadBad

Biobeing,

Anyone can add anything they want to that list. We're talking about fantasy land. I can say I'm a christian and cherry pick from the Bible about salvation and then cherry pick from the Quran for Heaven. Now I get saved by Jesus, and I get the virgins to boot!

I guess it's kind of like the holograph room on Star Trek NG. Anything I want.

Darth Dane

Anything I want.

"ask and you shall be given", wasn't that Divine Law?

So when you go to heaven and before you go to heaven, you ask for just the heaven you would like to go into, and you are given this! It could be a Heaven where you could fly at will, and materialise stuff as you wish, or maybe it is a heaven of eternal snowboarding with the coolest friends, or maybe you would like to come back here to experience Life all over again.


Well, who knows anyways?




DD - Love Spliff

BadBadBad

What if it's just nothing? No conscience, no memory, no awareness, ie oblivion. Basically we're altering the meaning of existence and reality as we know them. Once you step down that road, how do you define anything? How do we differentiate oblivion from non-existence or heaven?

BioBeing

Of course we can just add away I was trying to imagine heaven as most Xians seem to. I'm just exploring the possibilities, and I see no justification for the heaven as LWF describes it to co-exist with Hell and the notion of an ever loving just God. One of these concepts (at least) is flawed. IMHO.

As to anything - can we have our loved ones released from eternal torment in hell?