Joe V.

I don't post very often on these boards, I'm mostly a lurker. I've been reading many of the discussions on these boards and I'd like to know the reasoning behind this one.

If it weren't for ordinary human beings, I wouldn't know anything about God. Who tells me that there is a god? Humans do. Who tells me that the Bible is the Word of God? Humans do. Who tells me that Jesus is the son of God? Humans do. Who tells me that I must believe or spend an eternity in Hell? Humans do.

Trying to determine if there is a god is one of the most important decisions of my life, if not the most important. I do not wish to be deceived, either by another person or by my own wishful thinking. So why does this infallible god intentionally hide himself from all of us and then rely solely on fallible humans to convince the rest of us that he exsts? To all the theists out there, why do you speak for God?

- Joe

hinduwoman

Presumably theists feel that God is not capable of doing a good job and so they take it upon themselves.

Spenser

Simple, there is no God. But don't just believe that cause I tell you, or not believe it cause others tell you not to. Do the research, decide for yourself...

babelfish

Thats because all the gods throughout history have been created in the image and likeness of man, by man.

Jobar

Joe V., I really, really like the way you expressed that. Simple and pellucid.

You know, if it were *just* those things that we were told, I would have probably never questioned. We are so very prone to believe the things we are told as children, after all. Thing is, we are also told that God loves us, but may condemn us to everlasting pain; that God is three, but also one; that He is perfect and all powerful, but can't seem to get anything to work the way He wants. And lots and lots of other things that are contradictory on the face of it.

If we were told a tale of a God who was the same for all men, in every society around the world, I think we'd all believe. But since there are records of thousands of wildly varying gods... well, it often makes me question how we can call ourselves intelligent, thinking beings. So many of us cling to the notion that the one particular god we were taught of as children is the ONE, TRUE, REAL GOD- and we can be convinced that He, She or It wants us to do fantastically insane things.

I constantly have to remind myself that we are a young race, who only recently developed intelligence- I can hope that we are slowly growing up, and will eventually leave these boogiemen and closet monsters behind. If we are to survive, I think we must!

One Winged Angel

I onced asked a xian why god didn't simply build into humans the knowledge that he exists. You know, kinda like in a dream, where you just know something, without being able to explain it. He, of course, responded that we need free will, and knowing god exists violates our free will.

Then, I pointed out that after Moses parted the red sea, a clear demonstration of god's power, only a few years later, his people were worshipping golden calfs. He didn't have an answer.

The real answer is each person has to look for divinity on there own. After everyone has told you what to believe, you have to go out on your own and see if a god is really there.

That was why I deconverted. One day, deep in meditation, I searched my whole being, and I found no sign of any deity. That's what it took for me.

Joe V.

Heh-heh... Theists who would presume to know better than their own god? Perish the thought!

I have indeed done the research and decided quite some time ago that the evidence is lacking. Just wanna know what theists have to say. I may have to revive my CF account...

Thank you for the comments, Jobar. Now, I have to look up the word "pellucid"...

I've often felt like Humanity is like an abondoned child, all alone in a cold, dark universe, crying out for a parent that isn't there. Humanity is growing up, slowly but surely, learning about ourselves and our place in the universe. We've made it this far, I have faith that we can go much further.

It's amazing, isn't it? Theists claim that God is the source of all that is good, that's why most of us know what's right and what's wrong. Why didn't God take it a step further and just program us with the knowledge that he really exists? Why let us bicker and fight over which god is the One True God?

- Joe

Howard

When I ask such questions of my Christian friends I got a variety of answers. In order of frequency…

1) God has spoken directly to humans… via the Bible, which is his revealed word. Sometimes man has difficulty interpreting the Bible (no kidding) but it's there for all to see.
Follow-up questions:
How do we know the Bible is God's revealed word?
Answer: Because it says so.
Why should we believe that?
Answer: Because it's the word of God.
And so goes the circular logic

2) God has revealed himself in his creation. How can you look at this wondrous universe and this amazing thing called life, and not see the hand of the Creator.
Follow-up question What about all the bad stuff?
Answer: That's the devil, or man's corruption, or the difficulties and challenges God uses to test us.

3) God has revealed himself directly to me many times via the Holy Spirit. If you would but open your heart he would reveal himself to you too.

Radcliffe Emerson

Ditto, do the research, as I did. Check out the actual history of the bible being written, and check out the attributes given the Christian god that are stolen from earlier pagan myths, check out the history of Constantine forcing the church to vote on books for the bible, the lack of evidence for the Old Testament, let alone Jesus, man's evolution, etc.
There is information out there that makes it so blatantly obvious this crap is all fiction, it's laughable.

Normal

Human's "speak for God" everytime they uphold an objective moral code.

Of course, no one ever complains about that.