-RRH-

So, I've heard some people claim that mateine is superior to caffeine, and other people claim mateine is caffeine.

Thoughts?

Toto

I assume by mateine you mean the Brazilian mate.

It's not the same as caffeine. I drink it sometimes (in the form of Yerba Mate tea bags which I get a Trader Joes.)

Luckily you don't have to take anyone else's opinion - you can try it yourself.

Amie

Hi RRH
I was actually reading something about this last week so I came across a few good sites for information, here's one that may answer some questions about it for you...mateine is actually a caffeine substitute, but packs a punch...
here

I buy those tea bags at Trader Joes also and I highly recommend them...

BioBeing

First - all I say below will only be my skepticism talking, I personally have no knowledge of this product, but the claims in earlier posts caught my attention, so I did some searching.

1. None of the Resources listed at ma-tea.com are from peer reviewed journals.
   
2. Try searching for "mateine" on medline does not pull up any references yet they claim that it is effective in cases of obesity etc. Don't you think this is something that would reach the mainstream science journals?
   
3. In fact, searching for "yerba mate" on medline suggests it MAY be carcinogenic!
   Quote:

   Oral Oncol 2002 Oct;38(7):646-9 _ Mate: a risk factor for oral and oropharyngeal cancer. Goldenberg D. Department of Otolaryngology, Head and Neck Surgery, Rambam Medical Center, P.O.B. 9602, Haife, Israel. gdavid@tx.technion.ac.il Mate is a tea-like beverage consumed mainly in Argentina, Uruguay, Paraguay, southern Brazil and to a lesser degree in other areas of the world such as Germany, Syria, Lebanon and Northern Israel. It is brewed from the dried leaves and stemlets of the perennial tree Ilex paraguarensis ("yerba mate") a species that belongs to the Aquifoliaceae family. Mate consumption has been associated with an increased rate of oral and oropharyngeal cancers. The purpose of this study is to review the literature and discuss the role of Mate consumption in the development of oral and oropharyngeal cancer and the potential carcinogenic mechanisms. A review of the relevant literature linking Mate consumption with oral and oropharyngeal cancer and the carcinogenicity of Mate was performed. The search was performed using Medline, library catalogues, OCLC first search and ISI web of science databases. Case control studies on Mate drinking populations and, in vivo and in vitro studies on the carcinogenicity of Mate were reviewed. The populations reviewed in many of these studies also used alcohol and tobacco products confounding the influence of Mate as an independent risk factor. There is evidence in the literature that Mate consumption is in itself carcinogenic and plays a role in the development of cancers of the oral cavity and oropharynx. Although the exact mechanism of carcinogenesis is still unknown, available information suggests that Mate drinking should be considered one of the risk factors for oral and oropharyngeal cancer.

4. The book they recommed the most, ?Yerba Mate Unequaled Natural Nutrition? was written by one Daniel Mowrey Ph.D. who appears to have a vested interest in the product. He also promoted the use of ephedra for weight loss, now banned.
   
5. The same David Mowery wrote
   Quote:

   For many years, and even now, in some sectors, Yerba Mate was (is) thought to contain caffeine; it differs from caffeine in some rather dramatic ways. Some members of the scientific community still resort to calling mateine a South American term for caffeine, or to maintaining, in perfect knowledge of the falseness of the assertion, that two substances so similar chemically must have the same properties. Slowly, they are being forced to acknowledge the distinction between mateine and caffeine. Mateine, then, has a unique pharmacology and it is unfair to compare it to caffeine...

   Now remember, their are NO publications mentioning mateine on pubmed (#2, above), so how are the Chemists being forced to acknowledge the difference? Maybe the different pharmacological properties are due to the other components of the drink, not just the caffeine/mateine?
   
6. In fact, caffeine CAN be extracted from mate leaves
   Quote:

   J Agric Food Chem 2002 Aug 14;50(17):4820-6 Extraction of methylxanthines from guarana seeds, mate leaves, and cocoa beans using supercritical carbon dioxide and ethanol. Saldana MD, Zetzl C, Mohamed RS, Brunner G. Faculty of Chemical Engineering, State University of Campinas, C.P. 6066, CEP 13083-970, Campinas, SP, Brazil. New experimental data on the extraction of caffeine from guarana seeds and mate tea leaves, and theobromine from cocoa beans, with supercritical CO2 were obtained using a high-pressure extraction apparatus. The effect of the addition of ethanol to carbon dioxide on the extraction efficiency was also investigated. Caffeine extraction yields of 98% of the initial caffeine content in both wet ground guarana seeds and mate tea leaves were obtained. Extractions of caffeine from guarana seeds and mate tea leaves also exhibited a retrograde behavior for the two temperatures considered in this work. In the removal of theobromine from cocoa beans, a much smaller extraction yield was obtained with longer extraction periods and consequently larger solvent requirements. The results of this study confirm the higher selectivity of CO2 for caffeine in comparison with that for theobromine, and also the influence of other components in each particular natural product on the extraction of methylxanthines. The effect of the addition of ethanol to carbon dioxide on the extraction of methylxanthines was significant, particularly in the extraction of theobromine from cocoa beans. In general, the use of ethanol results in lower solvent and energy requirements and thereby improved extraction efficiency. PMID: 12166966 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

   while another talks of "cafeic acid"
   Quote:

   Fitoterapia 2001 Nov;72(7):774-8 Phenolic compounds in seven South American Ilex species. Filip R, Lopez P, Giberti G, Coussio J, Ferraro G. Catedra de Farmacognosia, Facultad de Farmacia y Bioquimica, IQUIMEFA (UBA-CONICET), Junin 956, 1113, Buenos Aires, Argentina. rfilip@ffyb.uba.ar Ilex paraguariensis (common name: 'mate' or 'yerba mate') is used for the preparation of the most popular tea-like beverage of South America. Choleretic, hypocholesteremic, antioxidant, hepatoprotective and bitter taste properties of mate are attributed to the phenolic constituents of the leaves. I. paraguariensis has seven local congeneric substitutes or adulterants: I. brevicuspis; I. theezans; I. microdonta; I. dumosa var. dumosa; I. taubertiana; I. pseudobuxus; I. integerrima; and I. argentina. An HPLC method using UV with Photodiode Array Detector was developed for the identification and quantification of caffeoyl derivatives (caffeic acid, chlorogenic acid, 3,4-dicaffeoylquinic acid, 3,5-dicaffeoylquinic acid and 4,5-dicaffeoylquinic acid) and flavonoids (quercetin, rutin and kaempferol) in these species. I. paraguariensis showed a higher content of flavonoids and caffeoyl derivatives than the other assayed species. PMID: 11677016 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Sure sounds like caffeine to me - but I'm not saying don't drink it, just follow through with the search if you want to find the details.

[Sorry - just bored I guess]

Amie

What I want to find out is the caffeine differences in soda and in coffee while I am thinking of it...anyone know off hand how much more caffeine a can of coke would have to a cup of coffee?
when i try to decrease the amount of coffee I drink i get terrible headaches I am hooked.

mhc

A coke has only about 1/4 the caffeine of a cup of joe.
For a list of the caffeine content of various food items, go here .

Wyz_sub10

I sympathize with you. Last Saturday (2 weeks, actually), after my morning coffee, I shunned caffeine for the rest of the weekend. By Sunday early evening, my head hurt so much I was considering lopping it off. I spent from 2 pm to bedtime lying down.

Kinross

From rec.food.drink.tea FAQ my guess is that mateine = caffeine as a marketing ploy.

I can't find the chemical structure for mateine anywhere.

Coragyps

Here I am, too, 85 miles from the nearest Chemical Abstracts or Bielstein's , but that's my guess as well: possibly mateine is a salt of caffeine with some tannin or the other, described back before modern instrumentation was around to definitively give a structure. There seem to be a lot of mutually plagiarized health-food websites that say "almost like caffeine, but the molecular structure is slightly different", which is a little vague for a molecule as simple as that: either it's caffeine, or it ain't.

Kinross

Mateine does = Caffeine

Caffeine FAQ