Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Celsus · 12-21-2002, 09:49 PM

Hi all,

Ever since I outed myself to my family, the number of apologetic books sitting around my house seems to have increased exponentially. I've just returned to Singapore, and I swear there are at least ten new apologetic titles lying around. My dad's currently in Africa, but when he gets back, I suppose the sparks are going to fly. We've already dealt with Darwin's Black Box, Darwin on Trial, Is the Bible true?, The Case for Christ, Losing Faith in Faith, The Tower of Babel, and Abusing Science, I really can't see what's coming from this next set of titles:

First off:
William Dembski's Intelligent Design. The blurb on the back portrays him as the Newton of our age. <cough> Any hints about tackling this particularly book?

Secondly, 600 pages of Faith has Its Reasons: An Integrative Approach to defending Christianity by Kenneth D. Boa and Robert M. Bowman Jr. Never heard of these two, but flipping through it, it doesn't seem to have much ammunition for my dad. Still, I can't imagine why my dad would need such a book except to handle the one sceptic in the family.

Third, A Skeptic's Search for God: Convincing Evidence for His Existence by Ralph Muncaster. <puke> A "sceptic" who gets to set up himself as an atheist strawman. How many Christians investigate atheism by only reading the atheist viewpoint? Well he's done the opposite. Supposedly.

Fourth, Questions of Science by Andrew Barton. I flipped through it and found out he's a theistic evolutionist. My OEC dad seems to have shot himself in the foot with this one.

Fifth, The Science of God by Gerald Schroeder. Read it, can't be asked to deal with the language. Can't even remember what it's about.

Sixth, This We Believe: The Good News of Jesus Christ for the World by 12 different authors, including Lee Strobel and Ravi Zacharias. Uh oh.

There are plenty of other titles lying around, but I don't think the Prayer of Jabez really counts as an apologetic. He's also got his Facts for Faith apologetic periodical lying prominently on the coffee table. Anyone ever dealt with these books? Some help would be most welcome, to anticipate the coming barrage.

And one last question: Should I get him to read The Jesus Mysteries or Deconstructing Jesus first?

Joel

ex-joejoejoe

P.S. Those of you who know me will note that I've always been for tolerance, understanding, dialogue, etc. etc. But this is definitely an ambush my dad is setting up (he did it the last time I was back). So I'd like to be a little ahead of him this time.

seebs · 12-21-2002, 09:57 PM

Hmm. Perhaps the thing to do would be to get a short set of scripture quotes supporting leaving people the fuck alone if they don't want to be witnessed at? I'm sure there are a few.

Gurdur · 12-22-2002, 12:25 AM

yes, isn't it possible to strive for mutual toleration ? Won't your father settle for a discreet cease-fire ?

Evangelion · 12-22-2002, 01:55 AM

Get him to read The Myth of God Incarnate.

A healthy dose of John Hick will leave him with a metaphysical migraine for days.

HelenM · 12-22-2002, 03:03 AM

Hi Joel,

If he's willing to read one book for each one he expects you to read, I think that's great. If you both have time to do the reading, that is!

(This seems like it would be better in another forum, fwiw. It certainly isn't fluff! Either GRD or SL&S, perhaps. Moderators, what do you think?)

take care
Helen

Celsus · 12-22-2002, 03:52 AM

Hi all,

seebs,

If there were any such verses, and ones that were convincing, I doubt my dad would still be a missionary.

Gurdur,

Surely you know how stubborn I am in debates? I got it from my dad, btw. Ceasefires are usually called due to the late hour.

Evangelion,

Haven't heard of that book before. Will look it up, thanks!

HelenM,

Usually I force him to read the book, by reading it out in front of him, then making him want to see the "context". Anyway, he's only ever read The Tower of Babel (which he vandalized my precious copy of, and I'm one of those anal people who doesn't even like the binding broken), and Abusing Science, although I seriously doubt he's read the entire book (he claims he read it in a night).

Joel

P.S. Anyone read/heard of these books I mentioned in the OP? He's coming back in 3 weeks time.

Evangelion · 12-22-2002, 05:14 AM

Celsus - it's a classic piece of work from the "liberal" school of Christian thought.

Click <a href="http://s1.amazon.co.uk/exec/varzea/ts/exchange-glance/Y02Y3810857Y3469320/qid=1040566610/ref=sr_aps_zshops_1_3/026-0899149-8570055" target="_blank">here</a> for a 2nd-hand copy.

BTW, you're not "anal" just because you care about books. I would feel the same. And why? Well, because (a) they're damned expensive, and (b) still one of the best forms of portable media available.

They've been with us for centuries, and I can't see them being replaced by new technology just yet...

[ December 22, 2002: Message edited by: Evangelion ]</p>

Yellum Notnef · 12-22-2002, 05:29 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by seebs:
<strong>Hmm. Perhaps the thing to do would be to get a short set of scripture quotes supporting leaving people the fuck alone if they don't want to be witnessed at? I'm sure there are a few.</strong>

What quotes would these be?
I`m not trying to pick on you,but shouldn`t you know what is and isn`t in your own bible?

Maverick · 12-22-2002, 05:31 AM

Too good for this forum. Off to GRD!

Maverick - Moderator

Living Dead Chipmunk · 12-22-2002, 08:18 AM

Quote:

If there were any such verses, and ones that were convincing, I doubt my dad would still be a missionary.

Matthew 6:1, 6:5-6, 7:6, 10:5-6 (kind of vague.. basically, only preach to Jews).
Acts 16:6

12-21-2002, 09:49 PM	#1
Celsus Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Singapore Posts: 2,875	I've a feeling I'm about to be ambushed... Hi all, Ever since I outed myself to my family, the number of apologetic books sitting around my house seems to have increased exponentially. I've just returned to Singapore, and I swear there are at least ten new apologetic titles lying around. My dad's currently in Africa, but when he gets back, I suppose the sparks are going to fly. We've already dealt with Darwin's Black Box, Darwin on Trial, Is the Bible true?, The Case for Christ, Losing Faith in Faith, The Tower of Babel, and Abusing Science, I really can't see what's coming from this next set of titles: First off: William Dembski's Intelligent Design. The blurb on the back portrays him as the Newton of our age. <cough> Any hints about tackling this particularly book? Secondly, 600 pages of Faith has Its Reasons: An Integrative Approach to defending Christianity by Kenneth D. Boa and Robert M. Bowman Jr. Never heard of these two, but flipping through it, it doesn't seem to have much ammunition for my dad. Still, I can't imagine why my dad would need such a book except to handle the one sceptic in the family. Third, A Skeptic's Search for God: Convincing Evidence for His Existence by Ralph Muncaster. <puke> A "sceptic" who gets to set up himself as an atheist strawman. How many Christians investigate atheism by only reading the atheist viewpoint? Well he's done the opposite. Supposedly. Fourth, Questions of Science by Andrew Barton. I flipped through it and found out he's a theistic evolutionist. My OEC dad seems to have shot himself in the foot with this one. Fifth, The Science of God by Gerald Schroeder. Read it, can't be asked to deal with the language. Can't even remember what it's about. Sixth, This We Believe: The Good News of Jesus Christ for the World by 12 different authors, including Lee Strobel and Ravi Zacharias. Uh oh. There are plenty of other titles lying around, but I don't think the Prayer of Jabez really counts as an apologetic. He's also got his Facts for Faith apologetic periodical lying prominently on the coffee table. Anyone ever dealt with these books? Some help would be most welcome, to anticipate the coming barrage. And one last question: Should I get him to read The Jesus Mysteries or Deconstructing Jesus first? Joel ex-joejoejoe P.S. Those of you who know me will note that I've always been for tolerance, understanding, dialogue, etc. etc. But this is definitely an ambush my dad is setting up (he did it the last time I was back). So I'd like to be a little ahead of him this time.

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12-21-2002, 09:57 PM	#2
seebs Contributor Join Date: May 2002 Location: Saint Paul, MN Posts: 24,524	Hmm. Perhaps the thing to do would be to get a short set of scripture quotes supporting leaving people the fuck alone if they don't want to be witnessed at? I'm sure there are a few.

12-22-2002, 12:25 AM	#3
Gurdur Contributor Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Buggered if I know Posts: 12,410	yes, isn't it possible to strive for mutual toleration ? Won't your father settle for a discreet cease-fire ?

12-22-2002, 01:55 AM	#4
Evangelion Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Walsall, UK Posts: 1,490	Get him to read The Myth of God Incarnate. A healthy dose of John Hick will leave him with a metaphysical migraine for days.

12-22-2002, 03:03 AM	#5
HelenM Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Ill Posts: 6,577	Hi Joel, If he's willing to read one book for each one he expects you to read, I think that's great. If you both have time to do the reading, that is! (This seems like it would be better in another forum, fwiw. It certainly isn't fluff! Either GRD or SL&S, perhaps. Moderators, what do you think?) take care Helen

12-22-2002, 03:52 AM	#6
Celsus Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Singapore Posts: 2,875	Hi all, seebs, If there were any such verses, and ones that were convincing, I doubt my dad would still be a missionary. Gurdur, Surely you know how stubborn I am in debates? I got it from my dad, btw. Ceasefires are usually called due to the late hour. Evangelion, Haven't heard of that book before. Will look it up, thanks! HelenM, Usually I force him to read the book, by reading it out in front of him, then making him want to see the "context". Anyway, he's only ever read The Tower of Babel (which he vandalized my precious copy of, and I'm one of those anal people who doesn't even like the binding broken), and Abusing Science, although I seriously doubt he's read the entire book (he claims he read it in a night). Joel P.S. Anyone read/heard of these books I mentioned in the OP? He's coming back in 3 weeks time.

12-22-2002, 05:14 AM	#7
Evangelion Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Walsall, UK Posts: 1,490	Celsus - it's a classic piece of work from the "liberal" school of Christian thought. Click <a href="http://s1.amazon.co.uk/exec/varzea/ts/exchange-glance/Y02Y3810857Y3469320/qid=1040566610/ref=sr_aps_zshops_1_3/026-0899149-8570055" target="_blank">*here*</a> for a 2nd-hand copy. BTW, you're not "anal" just because you care about books. I would feel the same. And why? Well, because (a) they're damned expensive, and (b) still one of the best forms of portable media available. They've been with us for centuries, and I can't see them being replaced by new technology just yet... [ December 22, 2002: Message edited by: Evangelion ]</p>

12-22-2002, 05:31 AM	#9
Maverick Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Green Bay, Wisconsin Posts: 6,367	Too good for this forum. Off to GRD! Maverick - Moderator

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