Batman

The real problem with "under god" in the pledge is not these words themselves but that they are simply another encroachment by religion upon our government.
-The Constitution does not mention god at all. Nor does the bill of rights. Nor does any amendment ever passed by the founding fathers.
-Religious tests of any kind were expessedly forbidden by the Constitution.
-No oaths of office required the mention of God.
-Our national motto, E Pluibus Unum, was created by John Adams, Ben Franklin, and Thomas Jefferson and adopted by Congress and not changed untill 1957.
-The Treaty of Tripoli stated that the United States was not in any founded as a Christian nation. This treaty was unanamously passed by Congress.
-No currency, coin or paper, mentioned god or religion at all untill 1864. .
-The writings of both Jefferson and Madison stated the need for separation of church and state.
So how can anyone claim that the founders wanted religion to be a part of government? But they do.
The question is why is it neccessary to put God, even just the name God, into everything? For what purpose?

Abacus

God (especially the Christian version) is a fragile being. Apparently He needs a lot of legislation to protect Him from us godless heathens.

[ August 03, 2002: Message edited by: Random Number Generator ]</p>

Starboy

It torks me off as well. We just have to bide our time. The ranks of the unreligious is the fastest growing segment of our population. It may take awhile but when it gets large enough, they better look out. Payback is a bitch!

<a href="http://www.gem-werc.org/mmrc/mmrc9805.htm" target="_blank">Statistics from the pens of Christians</a>

Starboy

[ August 03, 2002: Message edited by: Starboy ]</p>

capsaicin67

Originally posted by Batman:
The question is why is it neccessary to put God, even just the name God, into everything? For what purpose?

IMO, many xians fervently believe that their god and cult want them to actively convert and "save" others and that they are the one, true, and only way that is righteous. And that people that do not belong to their club are not only not going to get the Big Reward in the afterlife which they, and god, of course, want for us-----but that heathens are bad people that need brought under the yoke to prevent "doing harm" to others as well.

The slow, and subtle, encroachment on the secular gov't. of this country gradually changes the public's perception of what the country represents. For instance, I have not met a single person in my immediate environment----including the ones that were there before and after-------that remembers or knows that there was an Original/Authentic Pledge as recently as 1954. Now, I have not done any kind of thorough polling on the issue, I'm sure there are exceptions. But my point is simply that the national/historical script is being gradually given a flavor/poison that the public is developing a tolerance for. Buffman cites in other threads, I believe, only some of what I believe are many organized mechanisms/groups by which the evangelical xians are deliberately, and steadily attempting to "culture jam secular memes", and to bring the majority of public opinion into alignement with their goals: to make this a Xian Nation. They simply do not really believe in the ideals of E Pluribus Unum because they do not believe that it is in fact ok to believe anything other than their brand of superstition. Other people, no matter what they might say selectively, are less than them until they join their cult. Turning this into a godful nation is just the next step in softening things up for the transition to a Xian Nation.