winstonjen

There was quite an amusing comic in Viz magazine a few years ago. The most popular girl in school went to the nurse, and the nurse said she had cancer and only had one day to live (obviously not realistic, but bear with me). So the girl became mean to everyone to get them to hate her, so they "wouldn't be much arsed" when she died.

Then the nurse told her that she got cancer mixed up with nits, and she wasn't going to die. So she told her friends, but they hated her so much already that they poisoned her tea, and she died. :boohoo:

So, is getting others to hate you so they won't miss you immoral? Is it a case of "the road to hell is paved with good intentions?"

I'm not so sure, I'm interested in what the opinion here is.

...

Interesting. I'd say she's a LOT more pessimistic than I previously thought possible. She should have remembered the motto "Optimas est Veritas" and come clean from the beginning.

winstonjen

But if she had come clean, her friends would be sad, since they thought she was going to die, which was what she didn't want.

Seraphim

Instead of making them mad and not miss her, she should have made the best of that day to make everyone happy ... at least when she dies, everyone could have happy things to remember her by ...

She cannot control how others feel about her, least she could do is make them feel good about themselves. Hating someone only to have them die on you and never get a chance to show how they feel about that person is even worse than missing a person.

BrianTheAtheist

First of all, you have to do some pretty terrible thing to get your best friends to hate you in one day, and they must hate you beyond reasoning to poison your tea. (BTW, what school serves tea???) Doing terrible thing is immoral.

Stated earlier by winstonjen:
This is very true. Even if the terrible acts were with the best of intentions, it was poorly misplaced. Most people who have a fight with someone right before they die, usually deal with the guilt for years and years.

winstonjen

That quote was actually from Seraphim, BTW.

Although I do agree with your feelings on how guilt can get in the way, the idea behind getting your/my friends to hate you (or me) is so they don't miss the person who died, and they can get on with their lives.

Monkeybot

Right on! I couldn't agree more.

The deaths of my father's father and my mother's father were pretty instructive. My mother's father was always a stiff, reserved guy. He was a basically good person, but he was not what you'd call friendly, and never affectionate. He enjoyed our company, but rarely told jokes. If you hugged him, he accepted it grudgingly -- not because he didn't like you, but because he just didn't like that sort of display. When he got sick and began to die, he pushed us all away even more, because he couldn't stand for us to see him weak and vulnerable. When he died, I felt as though I had never really known him -- he had never let me (or even my mother, really) in close enough to see who he really was.

My father's father, by contrast, was always bright and friendly and playful -- I remember him throwing his wife's slippers at me and my sister and tickling us silly. He hugged back when you hugged him. He talked candidly about his disabilities (he'd lost part of his foot to frostbite) instead of pretending they didn't exist. When he had surgery on his lungs, it left him with this weird shoulder-popping thing; he used to constantly pop it just to freak us all out! The last time I saw him (and we both sorta knew it was the last time) he gave me a big hug.

In so many ways, he was the opposite of my mother's father. I definitely felt closer to him and I was sadder when he died. But I would much rather that my mther's father had died in the same way; when I think of him, it's like I'm thinking about somebody I read about in a book. I should have gotten to know him better, I had the chance while he was alive, but he wouldn't let me. He kept us out, and that fills me with regret and frustration. So many opportunities wasted. I never got a chance to really get to know him... and now I never will have that chance. Even though it left me ultimately sadder, I vastly prefer the attitude of my father's father, who used those opportunities to get to know us before he died, and to leave the world a little brighter for us than it would have been otherwise.

Seraphim

When he died, I felt as though I had never really known him -- he had never let me (or even my mother, really) in close enough to see who he really was.

Even though it left me ultimately sadder, I vastly prefer the attitude of my father's father, who used those opportunities to get to know us before he died, and to leave the world a little brighter for us than it would have been otherwise.

My reply : ...

I guess some people are like your mother's father, they are too soft in the inside to allow others to see it, and put on a stone-faced look to show that they don't care. Kindda reminds of me ...

Your father's father however did made things happier for others, and memories like that is what will accompany us when we think about them.

telll me winstonjen, could you like to make people happy before you leave?

I could ... IF I know how to make others happy... but I don't. Instead, I will care for them in my own, cold, stone-faced ways. To love others doesn't have to be by talking and caring about them and being all opened to them, it can be shown by simply being there for them when they needs it.

Life afterall is not about how much you can carry to the next world, it is how much you can give in this before you leave it.

Boro Nut

If she'd come clean from the beginning she wouldn't have had nits. Don't you listen or something?

Boro Nut

winstonjen

Of course, but sometimes that can make them feel sadder when after I'm gone.

I see your point, but after I'm dead, I'm not going to know all about the consequences, so it won't bother me afterwards. It can only bother me before I'm gone, and influence me not to commit suicide, for example.