GeoTheo

I've got to admit this arguement really ticks me off precisely because I have no way of refuting it. I guess I can only say that God, through my belief in Him has and continues to have a very positive and uplifting effect on my life, wheras my belief in Santa really had no effect on me other than to make it hard for me to sleep on Christmas eve. Something didn't quite fit though and I confronted my parents about it before I reached school age. Our chimney was in fact to narrow to allow the passage of a portly adult bearing a huge sack of gifts. There also were logistical problems of delivering to so many households in one day. So I guess it was impiricism that led to Santa's downfall in my case. I was however advised to be considerate of my fellow schoolmates beliefs the following year.
My best friend ended up being a jewish boy so I was glad I at least could have one friend that shared my view on the matter.
I did however violate my mothers wishes and disabused my sister of her belief in Santa at a young age. She later pretended to believe in him again though because it was fun.
One thing to point out though is that there are a good many Christians that believe the existence of God is not an obvious fact that you can force people to accept by painting them into a logical corner.

catman

hAHAHA I am on another board proving Santa's and god's existance. I'm glad to see that Vib has taken up the torch of proving Santa Claus' existance. Proving god's existance is easy: all I have to do is cuss everybody out. Proving Santa's existance is a little more challenging on account of the arguments I get against his existance. Like: Some man only made up Santa. Then I have to say something like: Well, doesn't that help prove that he exists since some man was involved in making all of us humans on earth?

SWOOOOSH

Yeah, I can prove that both of these exist, too, but it's a lot harder. Until someone can show me a chicken that can lay decorated eggs--then I'll keep on proving that the Easter Bunny exist.

[ August 30, 2002: Message edited by: catman ]</p>

Bible Humper

Haha, not by a long shot, Luvluv, not by a long shot. How do you know that the particular present wasn't spiritual? Or a later incident of great luck? Or the kid is a prick deep down inside?

Santa always gives the good kids presents, even if it is imperceptible, or late, etc. The same way that Yahweh always answers prayers in fact, it's just that the answer is sometimes "no", "maybe", or "later".

If this point goes on further, you are about to find out why it drives us nuts to argue this kind of point with christians. There is always an answer if you think long enough about it because religous thought is, after all, just an adult game of make believe.

Anyways, how about we apply this standard to Yahweh? Yahweh apparently is too busy answering prayers from the first world for help finding socks, and too occupied by painting his face on some old woman's tortilla to bother with all of the starving children in Africa who are true believers too.

Maybe the trailer park yokels got it right and Jesus is indeed a "good 'ole white boy" who doesn't have time for blacks, eh? Or does Jesus not answer prayers after all?

Mad Kally

God is the only childhood myth carried over into adulthood.

Vanderzyden

Geo,

I think that you and I share some common ground. I am curious, however, about one thing in particular. In fact, I put this question to everyone here:

Why are you motivated to believe anything at all?

More specifically, which of the following is more virtuous (honest), as a motivation for belief?

a) because such belief affirms one presuppositions
b) because it feels good
c) because the object of belief is--in all likelihood--the truth.

Vanderzyden

Bible Humper

You've already gone wrong, subatomic phenomena are an example of things that we can't directly observe that are still supported by evidence. Anyways, just keep in mind that the proof doesn't have to be visible.

Doesn't he want people to believe in him?

It doesn't matter, as long as it is not mistakeable. He just has to avoid the kinds of goofs that he seems to pull whenever he reveals "proof" of himself to the world.

An example of what I'm talking about is sending himself down and paralleling the myth of Mithras almost exactly, and then expecting us to have faith that this carpenter's biographers didn't "borrow" those legends for their messiah.


The only standard is it be believable, is that so hard for the almighty?

Bullshit, more make believe to rationalise the "behavior" of your imaginary playmate.

This is the Omnipotent Yahweh we're talking about, no mere comic book character! Even if there was no way even SuperGod could show his "perfect self", he could tone it down and send another avatar at least.

Dr S

Vanderzyden, if you want candid then candid you shall have.

Allow me to presume that most of the atheists and agnostics on this board all agree that the evidence must be visible to the human eye…Presuming the typical answer is yes, then may I ask why? Why must God make himself visible?

You are being deceitful. You've been caught in a lie and are trying to squirm your way out.
You want to make it seem that Atheists have set the proof bar at an unfair level. How unfair of them to want to see, or hear, or feel, or smell, or taste some proof of god. Any of the ways humans have of gaining information.

You can't offer any proof because you don't have any.

And since you don't have any that makes you immoral for claiming that there is a god. You should be ashamed of yourself.

Dr S

Luvluv, At the end of the day, all I have to do to disprove Santa is prove that one child who was good did not recieve presents one Christmas.

So are you saying that if one Christian martyr, who was good as good can be, pleaded with god not to die…"let this cup pass me by"…but they were nailed to a cross or fed to a bear anyway that would disprove god?

Amos

But Bible Humper, before children come to realize that St.Nicholas is not real they will defend his existence because "he was there and he did do all those good things the child was told about." Children remember St. Nicholas from last year etc.

His coming had been awaited with fear and trembling and when he finally arrived on Dec.6 judgement day has passed and the child was one of the lucky (chosen) ones.

So the period of doubt begins after they believe and before their faith finds understanding in the story they first believed.

The same is true with Catholicism. What the child hears during the first 8 years is true but not quite true in the way he first believed and therefore requires understanding.

Faith seeking understanding requires faith that is rooted and grounded in truth or else it can never become realized.

Vanderzyden

SCOW,

Compare these two sets of statements, and please tell me what are your expectations concerning a legitimate avatar.

Vanderzyden