Freethought & Rationalism Archive

SUTG · 08-29-2002, 01:46 PM

Hello Atheists,

I have noticed that, when asked why they lack belief, atheists are fond of saying "I don't believe in God for the same reasons that you do not believe in Santa Claus." Is this really true? Do you think it is really legitimate to compare the two beliefs?

For example, are there any educated people that believe in Santa Claus? Are there any discussion boards like this for people who do not believe in Santa Claus?

TooBad · 08-29-2002, 01:54 PM

Do you believe in Santa Claus?
If not, would you care to explain why?
Would you believe in Santa Claus if there were other educated people who believed in him?
Would you believe in Santa Claus if there were discussion forums for those who didn't believe in him?

MJones · 08-29-2002, 01:59 PM

Uhum... Kally?

Dirty Dog

Mageth · 08-29-2002, 02:00 PM

I don't believe in god(s) because of the lack of evidence for its existence. That's the same reason I don't believe in Santa Claus. How about you?

The fact that there are many educated people that believe in various gods is a key factor in why this website exists. If you haven't noticed, many believers don't think too highly of us infidels, and this is one reason some of us feel the need for community with like-minded people. If there were few or no educated people that believed in god(s), then there would probably be as few atheist websites as there are asantaist websites.

[ August 29, 2002: Message edited by: Mageth ]</p>

zamboniavenger · 08-29-2002, 02:08 PM

Who cares what the rest of the world believes, educated or not? Might supposedly makes right, but it certainly doesn't make anything true.

SUTG · 08-29-2002, 02:21 PM

Let me ask another question:

Do you think it is a)more likely that the Christian God exists, b)more likely that Santa Claus exists, or c)equally likely that either exist?

Please explain your answer.

Bible Humper · 08-29-2002, 02:25 PM

Quote:

I have noticed that, when asked why they lack belief, atheists are fond of saying "I don't believe in God for the same reasons that you do not believe in Santa Claus." Is this really true? Do you think it is really legitimate to compare the two beliefs?

I do think that it is legitimate to compare the two because God-belief begins at the same stage of a child's development as Santa-belief.

The difference between the two is that Santa's intervention in the child's life is actually visible and undeniable, when the real source of the presents under the tree becomes apparent, it totally pulls the rug out from under the belief in this being.

Yahweh doesn't actually do anything that is clearly his handiwork, sice he doesn't exist, so there is no moment of discovery where you learn the secrets of the presents under the tree like you have with Santa, instead you get your presents after you die!

Yahweh also has the advantage of hellfire, which is no small edge over poor Santa. There are also daily rituals, observance of holy days, avoidance of taboos, and weekly indoctrination sessions.

If Santa had all that, he would be just as popular as an imaginary playmate for adults as Jesus.

Quote:

For example, are there any educated people that believe in Santa Claus?

No, and remarkably the more educated you are, the less likely you are to believe in Jesus either.

Quote:

Are there any discussion boards like this for people who do not believe in Santa Claus?

If the Santa believers turned out like the Jesus believers did, and tried to stuff their imaginary friend down everyone's throat, there would be.

Vanderzyden · 08-29-2002, 02:27 PM

I think these are fair questions. Of course it's nonsense to compare the Creator to Santa Claus . But the naturalist or the materialist will make such substitutions in the faint hope that they may somehow accuse God of not meeting their demands for proof.

Childish simplicities eventually fade away. Presents under the holiday tree are soon discovered to originate from the department store shelves. But then, the child matures and she begins to wonder why she does what she does. She learns that the world is not a good, safe or joyful place. She begins to ask ultimate questions concerning the origin of the cosmos, her existence, and her death.

One thing in particular distinguishes God from leprechauns and Santa Claus:

Santa Claus does not have a historical, verifiable long-standing religious tradition upon which the lives of many have been given and taken.

Hayden · 08-29-2002, 02:32 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Vanderzyden:
<strong>Santa Claus does not have a historical, verifiable long-standing religious tradition upon which the lives of many have been given and taken.</strong>

And this is bad? Poor Santa, without the lives of millions under his belt.

Mageth · 08-29-2002, 02:33 PM

Santa Claus does not have a historical, verifiable long-standing religious tradition upon which the lives of many have been given and taken.

Hooray for Santa Claus!

Edited to add: Congratulations! You've given evidence for a tradition. Which is not evidence of existence of the object of that tradition.

Further, there are other gods than the one you perhaps believe in with "historical, verifiable long-standing religious traditions upon which the lives of many have been given and taken."

[ August 29, 2002: Message edited by: Mageth ]</p>

08-29-2002, 01:46 PM	#1
SUTG Regular Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Cole Valley, CA Posts: 112	The Christian God vs. Santa Claus Hello Atheists, I have noticed that, when asked why they lack belief, atheists are fond of saying "I don't believe in God for the same reasons that you do not believe in Santa Claus." Is this really true? Do you think it is really legitimate to compare the two beliefs? For example, are there any educated people that believe in Santa Claus? Are there any discussion boards like this for people who do not believe in Santa Claus?

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08-29-2002, 01:54 PM	#2
TooBad Regular Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Oblivion, UK Posts: 152	Do you believe in Santa Claus? If not, would you care to explain why? Would you believe in Santa Claus if there were other educated people who believed in him? Would you believe in Santa Claus if there were discussion forums for those who didn't believe in him?

08-29-2002, 01:59 PM	#3
MJones Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Lincoln, AL Posts: 1,048	Uhum... Kally? Dirty Dog

08-29-2002, 02:00 PM	#4
Mageth Contributor Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Deep in the heart of mother-lovin' Texas Posts: 29,689	I don't believe in god(s) because of the lack of evidence for its existence. That's the same reason I don't believe in Santa Claus. How about you? The fact that there are many educated people that believe in various gods is a key factor in why this website exists. If you haven't noticed, many believers don't think too highly of us infidels, and this is one reason some of us feel the need for community with like-minded people. If there were few or no educated people that believed in god(s), then there would probably be as few atheist websites as there are asantaist websites. [ August 29, 2002: Message edited by: Mageth ]</p>

08-29-2002, 02:08 PM	#5
zamboniavenger Regular Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 342	Who cares what the rest of the world believes, educated or not? Might supposedly makes right, but it certainly doesn't make anything true.

08-29-2002, 02:21 PM	#6
SUTG Regular Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Cole Valley, CA Posts: 112	Let me ask another question: Do you think it is a)more likely that the Christian God exists, b)more likely that Santa Claus exists, or c)equally likely that either exist? Please explain your answer.

08-29-2002, 02:27 PM	#8
Vanderzyden Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: California Posts: 694	I think these are fair questions. Of course it's nonsense to compare the Creator to Santa Claus . But the naturalist or the materialist will make such substitutions in the faint hope that they may somehow accuse God of not meeting their demands for proof. Childish simplicities eventually fade away. Presents under the holiday tree are soon discovered to originate from the department store shelves. But then, the child matures and she begins to wonder why she does what she does. She learns that the world is not a good, safe or joyful place. She begins to ask ultimate questions concerning the origin of the cosmos, her existence, and her death. One thing in particular distinguishes God from leprechauns and Santa Claus: Santa Claus does not have a historical, verifiable long-standing religious tradition upon which the lives of many have been given and taken.

08-29-2002, 02:33 PM	#10
Mageth Contributor Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Deep in the heart of mother-lovin' Texas Posts: 29,689	Santa Claus does not have a historical, verifiable long-standing religious tradition upon which the lives of many have been given and taken. Hooray for Santa Claus! Edited to add: Congratulations! You've given evidence for a tradition. Which is not evidence of existence of the object of that tradition. Further, there are other gods than the one you perhaps believe in with "historical, verifiable long-standing religious traditions upon which the lives of many have been given and taken." [ August 29, 2002: Message edited by: Mageth ]</p>

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