braces_for_impact

There have been a few. It's not something to be flaunted. Check out the deconversion threads on this site; for most people it's a long, arduous task to become deconverted from any religion.

There are a few that have deconverted here right in front of our eyes, but I will not mention names as it is not my place to be airing their business. If some of them wish to come forward then so be it.

What's so amazing about it though? People are deconverted all the time in this world. Or are you specifically referring to this site?

Mageth

This is quite a claim to make for this site! But amazing if true.

It is true. While not directly deconverted by this site, I was beginning to emerge from a long life of Christianity when I discovered this site, and trust me the arguments against Christianity (and gods in general) presented here played a large part in my full "deconversion" to atheism. And I know of several posters who came to this site as believers only later to deconvert, largely due to the discussions here.

faustuz

I wonder what compelled factfinder to wander over to infidels and start arguing about religion. I guess “shaking the dust off one’s feet” is easier said than done. Or, perhaps there’s an agenda here after all?

Hmm…

factfinder

_____QUOTE_______________________________________
1. Religion in general, and Christianity in particular, has a long and colorful history of violence against non-believers (slaughter of the Baltic pagans, the Crusades, etc, etc)

2. The non-profit status of religious institutions most often results in a loss of funds needed for public services, inherently discriminating against non-believers.

3. Religion has too often attempted to hinder the advancement of science, to the detriment of mankind as a whole.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

1. True. Religion has fueled many wars & been tainted with bad
men who did nasty things. But would you not concede that
the direct teachings of Jesus Christ rebuked this activity?
Therefore, it is not the faith that is flawed, it is the human
tainting of the faith. The question remains: has the direct
teachings of Christianity hurt anyone @ anytime?

2. Really. What about Jubilee 2000. I have recently
read 'Globalization & it's Discontents' written by Clinton's
former Chief Economic Adviser. The author summarily beating
the knuckles of the Western government for it's involvement
with the IMF & hurting the poor of the world in favor of
Western interest. Guess what organization he credited with
actually making a difference for the poor of the world? That's
right...Jubilee 2000, a Christian organization. These funds
were used for believers & non-believers alike (you may note it
as the movement which is being heavily endorsed by Bono of
U2).

Would you feel the same way about 'discrimination' if a
Christian organization was not granted funding in favour of a
clearly non-Christian fund organization. If not, it is a double
standard.

3. I'm no scientist (probably obvious...I know) but can you give
an example of how Christianity has hindered the advancement
of science to the detriment of mankind. (I hope your not going
to bring up the dead Dolly sheep).

AmbiguousUbiquity

Call me silly, but it's been my experience as an atheist to not deconvert anyone. Maybe I have the incorrect agenda? When did this Atheism Conversion War start? I'm the last to know everything. If someone asks me why I think the way I do, I tell them. If they agree with me, so be it. I'm too busy with my own life to worry about changing minds over religion. I just don't want anyone religious ramming their beliefs down my throat. It's quite annoying.

If anything, I would think that most atheists just try to teach tolerance to many Christians. Sure, it's easy to SAY "Let's agree to disagree", but to live by that is quite different. It took me almost 7 years after becoming atheist to finally agree to disagree. Before that, I was always attacking and defending my opinion to those who were religious anytime they referenced their religion to me in any way. My best friend's husband once told me how sad he was that we wouldn't all be together in heaven. I had to honestly tell him I don't like anyone enough to spend eternity with them

But after many hours of debating, first heated, then not so much.....it's just been our understanding not to talk about it; to agree to disagree.

Factfinder, I don't see the sincerity in your statement to "agree to disagree". You seem to be a little touchy.

Lauren

Mageth

Originally posted by factfinder
Do you know any pro-lifers that aren't Christians? I do.

Yes, and I know of pro-choicers who are Christian, and "pro-lifers" who are Christian.

Do you know any anti-capital punishpment protesters
who aren't Christian? I do.

Yes, and I know capital punishment supporters that are Christian, and capital punishment opponents that are Christian.

What's your point?

From the evidence, it would appear that the Bible/God is of little help in determining the ethics of either of these examples.

As a Christian, I believe that all righteous things come from God. He is not particular to believers or non-believers. I believe that God works in the lives of everyone to varying degrees. I believe that God has made great men out of non-believers (the Bible is full of these stories-Nebuchadnezzar for example).

Does this answer your question?

Not really. You seem to be implying that any ethical/moral decision that anyone makes or any moral position that anyone holds that you think is "righteous" comes from God. However, your argument that non-believers sometimes agree with what you consider righteous does nothing to support that argument. Further, the fact that many believers come to opposite conclusions about what is "righteous" argues against your position.

factfinder

--I wonder what compelled factfinder to wander over to infidels and start arguing about religion. I guess “shaking the dust off one’s feet” is easier said than done. Or, perhaps there’s an agenda here after all?

Hmm…--

Yes, I do have an agenda. I'm gathering facts. Remember I'm asking about what the motive to keep arguing is?

Would you prefer that I not participate in the discussions here?

Hopeful Monsters

Ok. Then I accept these great discussions (as SOME on this site are) can get the ball rolling to a change - or consolidate/seal a change that was on its way. As a deconvert myself (from Catholicism to Atheism) I recognise all kinds of things get deconversion going.

Which means braces-for-impact's observation is pertinant to the OP's topic - ONE reason a least why each side comes to this site - they believe there are minds to be saved and it's worth the fight ...

factfinder

---Originally posted by factfinder
--You earlier claimed that non-theists would argue ethics even if Christianity didn't exist. Where do you think this would come from?--

Do you know any pro-lifers that aren't Christians? I do.

Yes, and I know of pro-choicers who are Christian, and "pro-lifers" who are Christian.

[b]Do you know any anti-capital punishpment protesters
who aren't Christian? I do.

Yes, and I know capital punishment supporters that are Christian, and capital punishment opponents that are Christian.

What's your point?

From the evidence, it would appear that the Bible/God is of little help in determining the ethics of either of these examples.

As a Christian, I believe that all righteous things come from God. He is not particular to believers or non-believers. I believe that God works in the lives of everyone to varying degrees. I believe that God has made great men out of non-believers (the Bible is full of these stories-Nebuchadnezzar for example).

Does this answer your question?

Not really. You seem to be implying that any ethical/moral decision that anyone makes or any moral position that anyone holds that you think is "righteous" comes from God. However, your argument that non-believers sometimes agree with what you consider righteous does nothing to support that argument. Further, the fact that many believers come to opposite conclusions about what is "righteous" argues against your position----
__________________________________________________

So your basically saying that since men fail to implement the 'law' (sin, ethics, whatever you want to call it) as written in the Bible, it means that it is false. So one could assume that since some people fail to uphold the law in the American justice system, the whole law is false. Kind of circular reasoning, isn't it?

factfinder

I've got to go now.

I will respond later to any replies posted to me.

It's been really fun! I'll be back soon.