Freethought & Rationalism Archive

ishalon · 06-16-2002, 07:38 AM

Morality is a waste of life. Why should we live boring, moral, God-inspired lives in school and such that end in nothing when we could be high 24/7, separate ourselves into STD affected people and non-STDs and have a worldwide orgy, or find something destructive to do?
Technology and everything would stop advancing, but who needs technology? it doesn't prove anything in the end.

Emotional Naturalist · 06-16-2002, 08:49 AM

OK. But what are we going to do after dinner?

[ June 16, 2002: Message edited by: Emotional Naturalist ]

ishalon · 06-16-2002, 01:11 PM

Fuck/sleep/take drugs. Don't you see that's all that should be done?

case · 06-16-2002, 08:09 PM

Uh...no? You've forgotten a few things in your rush to cure us of morality. First of all, not everyone might want to use drugs, for their own personal reasons. Morality would have little, if anything, to do with this. Some of us just enjoy being conscious, and avoiding unessecary trips to the emergency room.

Another fact you might want to remeber is sheer economic nessecity: if we're all using drugs, and screwing around, who would have anytime to aquire the means to purchase such chemical bliss? And even if we somehow found a way to do this, who would be manufacturing them? Can you imagine the organizational skills nessecary to accomplish the astronomical feat of supplying the entire human population with its daily fix?

As for the non-stop orgies, well, there's a number of problems with this idea, aside from the clean up involved. One, viruses are tricky, and find a way of surviving no matter what we do. There's also a slight problem of pregnancy. This could be solved with birth control, but again, who is going to be producing this? A few thousand factory workers who can't stop looking at the pretty flashing lights on the machines?

You seem to have some sort of Aldous Huxley fascination, but don't seem to explain how such a world could be attained. Aside from that, I don't see how this is primarily a moral problem; this seems to be more of a logistics problem. Nothing is stopping you from doing these things. Perhaps you have a problem with wanting to impose your idea of morality (or lack thereof) on everyone else? Maybe you should move this over to another forum. I'd go with RRP.

Unless of course someone wants start a sex and drugs forum.

[ June 16, 2002: Message edited by: case, because he was too $#@!-up to spell ]

[ June 17, 2002: Message edited by: case ]

JL · 06-18-2002, 03:47 PM

Quote:

Don't you see that's all that should be done?

A moral imperative from the amoral...

seebs · 06-18-2002, 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ishalon:
Fuck/sleep/take drugs. Don't you see that's all that should be done?

Nope.

I'm sorry, but you're unambiguously making a claim, which means you need to provide evidence. Go ahead, take your time. Prepare your case carefully; I have yet to see a logically consistent argument for any moral system at all that doesn't require the listener to buy into some arbitrary set of moral principles.

philechat · 06-18-2002, 04:23 PM

The reason moral systems are usually not based on evidence is because what is (the evidence) does not imply what ought to be (moral system). Therefore, morals necessarily depend on values, and are not "objective" like the evidences are.

One can deduce morals from the possible consequences of each action, and take actions in accordance to the consequences they imply. But then they are not objective, because each person may will a different consequence of his/her actions and acts accordingly.

Moral is a system of values, and is dependent on the individual's experiences and character. Unlike science (which deals with what is), a "one-size-fit-all" morality (which deals with what ought to be) is unlikely.

scigirl · 06-20-2002, 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ishalon:
Fuck/sleep/take drugs. Don't you see that's all that should be done?

You forgot, "listen to loud music."

Sheesh, amoral people just ain't what they used to be!

scigirl

southernhybrid · 06-21-2002, 04:41 AM

Quote:

Fuck/sleep/take drugs. Don't you see that's all that should be done

If we did it all the time, it would get boring. Our large evolved brains usually demand something a little more stimulating. Some of our primate relatives seem to enjoy a lot of sleeping and fucking but they have smaller brians and much *larger* testicles in relation to their body size. Like I said, our more powerful brains seem to think there's more to life than sex, drugs and rock and roll.

The Other Michael · 06-21-2002, 05:16 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by southernhybrid:
Like I said, our more powerful brains seem to think there's more to life than sex, drugs and rock and roll.

Like fast cars and motorcycles? Science fiction? Chocolate?

cheers,
Michael
(these are a few of my favorite things, tra la la la)

06-16-2002, 07:38 AM	#1
ishalon Regular Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: From: Posts: 203	Morality is a waste. Morality is a waste of life. Why should we live boring, moral, God-inspired lives in school and such that end in nothing when we could be high 24/7, separate ourselves into STD affected people and non-STDs and have a worldwide orgy, or find something destructive to do? Technology and everything would stop advancing, but who needs technology? it doesn't prove anything in the end.

06-16-2002, 08:49 AM	#2
Emotional Naturalist Banned Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: hell's flames Posts: 26	OK. But what are we going to do after dinner? [ June 16, 2002: Message edited by: Emotional Naturalist ]</p>

06-16-2002, 08:09 PM	#4
case Regular Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Missouri Posts: 420	Uh...no? You've forgotten a few things in your rush to cure us of morality. First of all, not everyone might want to use drugs, for their own personal reasons. Morality would have little, if anything, to do with this. Some of us just enjoy being conscious, and avoiding unessecary trips to the emergency room. Another fact you might want to remeber is sheer economic nessecity: if we're all using drugs, and screwing around, who would have anytime to aquire the means to purchase such chemical bliss? And even if we somehow found a way to do this, who would be manufacturing them? Can you imagine the organizational skills nessecary to accomplish the astronomical feat of supplying the entire human population with its daily fix? As for the non-stop orgies, well, there's a number of problems with this idea, aside from the clean up involved. One, viruses are tricky, and find a way of surviving no matter what we do. There's also a slight problem of pregnancy. This could be solved with birth control, but again, who is going to be producing this? A few thousand factory workers who can't stop looking at the pretty flashing lights on the machines? You seem to have some sort of Aldous Huxley fascination, but don't seem to explain how such a world could be attained. Aside from that, I don't see how this is primarily a moral problem; this seems to be more of a logistics problem. Nothing is stopping you from doing these things. Perhaps you have a problem with wanting to impose your idea of morality (or lack thereof) on everyone else? Maybe you should move this over to another forum. I'd go with RRP. Unless of course someone wants start a sex and drugs forum. [ June 16, 2002: Message edited by: case, because he was too $#@!-up to spell ] [ June 17, 2002: Message edited by: case ]</p>

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06-16-2002, 01:11 PM	#3
ishalon Regular Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: From: Posts: 203	Fuck/sleep/take drugs. Don't you see that's all that should be done?

06-18-2002, 04:23 PM	#7
philechat Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Mind of the Other Posts: 886	The reason moral systems are usually not based on evidence is because what is (the evidence) does not imply what ought to be (moral system). Therefore, morals necessarily depend on values, and are not "objective" like the evidences are. One can deduce morals from the possible consequences of each action, and take actions in accordance to the consequences they imply. But then they are not objective, because each person may will a different consequence of his/her actions and acts accordingly. Moral is a system of values, and is dependent on the individual's experiences and character. Unlike science (which deals with what is), a "one-size-fit-all" morality (which deals with what ought to be) is unlikely.

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