Vicar Philip

Smooth sailing for a while now.

Sunday past I went to the UU church alone, as my wife was (still kinda is) sick in bed. I enjoyed the discussion group, we talked about the Iraq war. Interesting.

Unfortunately, I couldn't say the same about the service. I'm afraid that the UUs try to be SO well-rounded, it ends up watered-down and bland. It's also a very liberal church, as I've stated before.

The liberal-ness really hit home, though, when it came time for the "Joys and Concerns" segment of the service. A young student got up and went to the front of the church. The procedure entails saying your name, your joy or concern, then lighting a candle. He got up and first said a concern about a friend of his who was attending a peace rally in DC. That's fine, I'm not particularly excited about this war either. Then his next concern was for the TV stations and networks to provide equal coverage to the anti-war protesters, despite being known as a "liberal media." Then raised his fist in a Power to the People gesture.

Yeah, yeah, I know; I knew it was liberal before I went. I don't believe politics have a place in church though. I sat through about another half hour of the service, but I had to leave before the pastor's sermon. It held no interest for me at all.

I know a lot of folks here are liberal, democrats, etc. and I have no problem with that. It just seems fairly obvious to me that I am unable to embrace the political side of things which appears to go hand in hand with most atheists.

So, I guess I'll just sit contentedly between the two extremes and live my life. We're contemplating going back to the Methodist church where all this trouble started, but things would definitely be different. Number one, yours truly would attend the adult Sunday School and sneakily interject a few challenging questions. I think it could be fun. I do not intend to create conflict, I just want to get people using their minds and not stick to the damn sheep mentality. We'll see.

brighid

Vicar,

Well ... maybe you shouldn't judge the overall potential benefits of UU participation based on one sermon. Although I had a similar experience at our local UU with an interim pastor. The sermon wasn't watered down, but it was what I thought to be overly intellectual and it rather boring. We have waited until a permanent pastor was installed before considering going back.

UU's don't tend to be conservative Republicans But there are atheists that a CR's, they are probably more of a minority though.

Whatever way it works out, I hope it is for the best.

Brighid

captainpabst

I agree that politics shouldn't be a prominent topic of conversation in a 'church' service. But it's not really the UU's fault that some guy decided to make the 'joys and concerns' section his soapbox.

Liberal rhetoric really pisses me off also; about as much as right-wing rhetoric.

Surely things don't get too political every Sunday there, do they? If so, then screw that place. Maybe there's a different UU congregation around there?

Godless Dave

My parents went to a Unitarian church once and had the same experience, only it was about the Vietnam War. It rubbed my dad the wrong way even though he was opposed to the war. They never went back to that church. I probably would have been raised Unitarian otherwise.

Mad Lion

Eh, I'm a liberal. So it wouldn't bother me. Rhetoric though it may be, and poorly thought out no doubt, I agree with the general sentiment, and that's enough for me usually. I'm not one for arguing.

admice

Don't judge the UU by the Joys and Concerns thing. There is a problem with it and 74% surveyed said they didn't like the political rhetoric, so our fellowship instituted new rules regarding it.
I recommend STAYING FOR A SERMON. You are judging the organization by looking at minor bits and pieces. Tho the variation between ministers is large, so it's hit or miss whether you would like, but you haven't even experienced the main part.

HelenM

Great!

I'm glad you're thinking through all your options and that you and your wife are able to talk about church attendance without it leading to intense conflict.

You can figure that whatever you decide to do, some people will think you made the right decision and others won't. I'm just glad things are going better for the two of you...

take care
Helen

Proxima Centauri

We are all pleased things are working better for you. I don't think the Methodist church where the trouble started is the best place for you.
Did the "goodly Christians" there make any effort to save your marriage? Did they try at all to find out your point of view? Your wife was talking frequently and loudly on the telephone about divorcing you. If the marriage had broken up I suspect there would have been any number of "Good Christian men" ready to befriend the fatherless children and explain how the divorce was all due to "Daddy's sinful atheism". The Fundies there are not your friends. Their friendship depends on you believing the same as they do and you can't do that.
I suggest that you go back to the other Methodist church where the pastor tried hard to help or that you persevere with the liberal UU Church. Alternatively you could try to find a UU Church closer to your views.
Personally I would be pleased if you stayed with the liberal UU Church, but I'm a European Social Demorcat. That means my views are close to those of American liberals. Still ask yourself, "Where can you expect a compassionate response over your debt problems?" Liberals will ask you concernedly if you have been back to your debt councillor. Conservatives will tend to view the debts as your moral weakness.

BadBadBad

Amen!

Janaya

Hey Vicar,

How about an update?

Just a thought. IIRC, you helped your wife down the path of faith, correct? Do you think she feels left behind since you have started down a new path apparently all on your own? Hmm. Maybe she feels left behind. Do you think that since you have resorted to reason and logic that she is only left with irrationallity and faith? Just a thought.

Peace,
Janaya