Freethought & Rationalism Archive

ballabosh · 07-03-2002, 11:33 AM

My apologies, if this has been posted already.

<a href="http://www.ctnow.com/news/opinion/commentary/hc-pledgecommentary0630.artjun30.story?coll=hc-headlines-commentary" target="_blank">Sanctimonious Posturing on Pledge</a>

[ July 03, 2002: Message edited by: ballabosh ]</p>

The Other Michael · 07-03-2002, 11:52 AM

Hi ballabosh,

thanks for the link - that is a good article.

cheers,
Michael

Buffman · 07-03-2002, 12:43 PM

What a wonderful and thoughtful article. I had to laugh at the words he used to describe the President's position on this issue.

Thank you, ballobosh.

ballabosh · 07-03-2002, 01:16 PM

You're welcome. I actually think this is the most reasonable article I've read on the debate from either side.

Grumpy · 07-03-2002, 03:12 PM

I'm glad to have seen this, and other sympathetic articles, in the past week. The day of the ruling, I recall hearing not one voice (except on this board) supporting the decision.

Now, the next day I was pleasantly surprised to hear 4 (count them, 4) callers on our local AM talk show who favored the ruling.

Lately, I've been reading more and more articles which typically include the sentence, "But if you read the opinion, it's hard to deny it makes sense." (Then again, maybe I'm choosing my reading selectively.)

This gets me to thinking: Have tempers cooled in the past week? Has anyone decided to back down from or even reverse their staunch opposition to the Pledge ruling? Perhaps not, especially where politicians are concerned, because they went so far out on a limb that they can't back off now.

JohnR · 07-03-2002, 05:42 PM

I keep hearing about "in god we trust" on our money and prayers in the congress. I found out what James Madison (a forefather I think) had to say. <a href="http://candst.tripod.com/tnppage/qmadison.htm" target="_blank">http://candst.tripod.com/tnppage/qmadison.htm</a>

Quote:

Is the appointment of Chaplains to the two Houses of Congress consistent with the Constitution, and with the pure principle of religious freedom? In the strictness the answer on both points must be in the negative.

How do these guys opinions get lost anyways? It took me 5 minutes to find this. <img src="confused.gif" border="0">

[ July 03, 2002: Message edited by: JohnR ]</p>

Grumpy · 07-03-2002, 05:55 PM

Who cares what Madison thinks?? It plainly says "In God We Trust" on the wall of the U.S. Senate. Therefore, we trust in God. Ipso facto, presto changeo, end of story.

I suppose you want to throw people in jail for saying "God bless you" when people sneeze!

Buffman · 07-03-2002, 06:25 PM

JohnR

Don't mind Grumpy. We are considering putting him into one of the Ground-based Midcourse Defense System silos now under construction in Ft. Greeley, Alaska, and using him to defend against "rogue" nation ICBMs.

The URL where you located that information is one of the best and most accurate sites on the Web for Church-State information. Unfortunately, Pres. Madison was overruled by Congress. I believe you will find that Pres. Jefferson held identical views, but he, too, was overruled by Congress. Please keep in mind, at that time in American history, White, Anglo-Saxon, Protestant(WASP) males were practically the only people that could get elected to Congress. All the more reason to celebrate the fact that our first Presidents favored a Deistic faith over Christianity while allowing a religious belief to fashion their political survival.

One of the last sane · 07-03-2002, 06:54 PM

Cool article, Ballabosh, thank you for providing the link.

ksagnostic · 07-03-2002, 07:10 PM

Great article!

07-03-2002, 11:33 AM	#1
ballabosh Junior Member Join Date: May 2001 Location: Chicago Posts: 8	A Constitutional Scholar Chimes In My apologies, if this has been posted already. <a href="http://www.ctnow.com/news/opinion/commentary/hc-pledgecommentary0630.artjun30.story?coll=hc-headlines-commentary" target="_blank">Sanctimonious Posturing on Pledge</a> [ July 03, 2002: Message edited by: ballabosh ]</p>

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07-03-2002, 11:52 AM	#2
The Other Michael Honorary Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: In the fog of San Francisco Posts: 12,631	Hi ballabosh, thanks for the link - that is a good article. cheers, Michael

07-03-2002, 12:43 PM	#3
Buffman Beloved Deceased Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: central Florida Posts: 3,546	What a wonderful and thoughtful article. I had to laugh at the words he used to describe the President's position on this issue. Thank you, ballobosh.

07-03-2002, 01:16 PM	#4
ballabosh Junior Member Join Date: May 2001 Location: Chicago Posts: 8	You're welcome. I actually think this is the most reasonable article I've read on the debate from either side.

07-03-2002, 03:12 PM	#5
Grumpy Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Alaska, USA Posts: 1,535	I'm glad to have seen this, and other sympathetic articles, in the past week. The day of the ruling, I recall hearing not one voice (except on this board) supporting the decision. Now, the next day I was pleasantly surprised to hear 4 (count them, 4) callers on our local AM talk show who favored the ruling. Lately, I've been reading more and more articles which typically include the sentence, "But if you read the opinion, it's hard to deny it makes sense." (Then again, maybe I'm choosing my reading selectively.) This gets me to thinking: Have tempers cooled in the past week? Has anyone decided to back down from or even reverse their staunch opposition to the Pledge ruling? Perhaps not, especially where politicians are concerned, because they went so far out on a limb that they can't back off now.

07-03-2002, 05:55 PM	#7
Grumpy Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Alaska, USA Posts: 1,535	Who cares what Madison thinks?? It plainly says "In God We Trust" on the wall of the U.S. Senate. Therefore, we trust in God. Ipso facto, presto changeo, end of story. I suppose you want to throw people in jail for saying "God bless you" when people sneeze!

07-03-2002, 06:25 PM	#8
Buffman Beloved Deceased Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: central Florida Posts: 3,546	JohnR Don't mind Grumpy. We are considering putting him into one of the Ground-based Midcourse Defense System silos now under construction in Ft. Greeley, Alaska, and using him to defend against "rogue" nation ICBMs. The URL where you located that information is one of the best and most accurate sites on the Web for Church-State information. Unfortunately, Pres. Madison was overruled by Congress. I believe you will find that Pres. Jefferson held identical views, but he, too, was overruled by Congress. Please keep in mind, at that time in American history, White, Anglo-Saxon, Protestant(WASP) males were practically the only people that could get elected to Congress. All the more reason to celebrate the fact that our first Presidents favored a Deistic faith over Christianity while allowing a religious belief to fashion their political survival.

07-03-2002, 06:54 PM	#9
One of the last sane Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: hereabouts Posts: 734	Cool article, Ballabosh, thank you for providing the link.

07-03-2002, 07:10 PM	#10
ksagnostic Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Wichita, KS, USA Posts: 2,514	Great article!

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