beliefisbunk

Name as many things as possible to disprove the (once existence) of Jesus or how he is commonly portrayed.

1. Lit. written about him was from secondary sources after demise; the result of the "man" has become simply thousandth-generation urban legend used for personal interpretation. (I think this is by far the best reason.)

2. The appearance of Jesus. It was reseached at a college in England that, through forensics, 1st century AD Israelis had facial features/complexions which were entirely different than the Jesus we see today. This version of Jesus - with blond-hair/blue eyes - was created in the 4th-5th centuries in Eastern Europe (what would have been the Byzantine church at that time, if I'm correct) which would probably explain how the swarthy complexion, scientifically proven from the Middle East - Jesus' homeland - was lost.

Is this not a good indicator that Christianity is a racist institution?

3. Which Jesus? Back in the Holy Times the name Jesus was about as common as the name "John" today. What were the chances that there was a Doctor, Lawyer, or some government official named Jesus? 2,000 years from now, if an archaelogical dig picked up the name "George", how many possibilities are there on who it is? George Dubya? George Burns? Curious George? George Michael? George Washington? George Washington Carver? Another George that is not famous?

Let it be clear that Christians will always live in a lie.

lpetrich

Comments:

1. I don't think that that is a absolute proof of nonexistence. Oral tradition can sometimes state things that can later be confirmed, though distinguishing fact from fiction can be difficult.

Consider the Iliad. Its description of Troy's geography precisely fits the area near Hissarlik, Turkey, where Heinrich Schliemann discovered a city of the right age. It also mentions bronze armor and boar's-tusk helmets, which had fallen out of style in Classical times, but which were found in Mycenaean-era graves. But it also mentions certain divine inhabitants of Mt. Olympus, and at last report, nobody who has climbed that mountain has found any gods living there.

2. I would not call depicting Jesus Christ with blond hair and blue eyes "racist" -- it's more a case of Xenophanes' Law that people tend to make deities in their own likeness. Consider black people who make pictures of black Jesuses.

3. I don't quite get the picture, though it may certainly be possible that the activities of more than one gentleman named "Jesus" had been conflated. Imagine someone thinking that someone named George had been a notable baseball-team owner before twice becoming President.

[ November 18, 2002: Message edited by: lpetrich ]</p>

beliefisbunk

<strong>1. I don't think that that is a absolute proof of nonexistence. Oral tradition can sometimes state things that can later be confirmed, though distinguishing fact from fiction can be difficult. </strong>

To this day, Christ has not been confirmed as once existent - at least, not THE Christ that everyone believes once existed. There is no proof that THE Christ didn't exist, however contradicting accounts about what he said, did, and looked liked leads one to confusion - there is no explanation to it, nor "proof" that THE Christ once existed. So, no proof of THE Christ existing is proof to me that THE Christ never existed, based on the fact any "proof" is pure hearsay.

<strong> I would not call depicting Jesus Christ with blond hair and blue eyes "racist" -- it's more a case of Xenophanes' Law that people tend to make deities in their own likeness. Consider black people who make pictures of black Jesuses.</strong>

Oh yes...in the movie Malcolm X you will probably remember the scene in the jail bathroom when they note Biblical passages describing Christ as having "webbed feet" and hair "like wool."

White Supremacists and Neo-Nazis have often justified, that, since Christianity is the dominant faith in the world, and since it gained its ground in Europe (white), god chose whites as the true Israelites (or "master race") and rendered all other relgions/races as animalistic or satanistic. Many non-WS/N-N Christians may think this but may not want to openly admit it.

This is evidence that Christianity is a racist institution.

Different physical applications of what Jesus looked like is also racist, for such an application places one's own descent in a very dominant, omniscent position.

HomelessMrBob

I believe that there was a Jesus of Nazareth that was crucified [sp?] for his beliefs. To me he seems more like a Martin Luther King who was a radical who stood up for his beliefs and died rahter than the son of God.

butswana

No historical Jesus here.
The things he is quoted as saying can be attributed to some one else, sometimes centuries before he allegedly lived.
The gospel stories get alot dead wrong. Such as geography, local customs, and Roman stuff.
There doesn't need to be a real guy for the religion to get going. When it started, the followers knew it was all spiritual. The historical bent came later.
That's the way I see it.

Ted Hoffman

beliefisbunk,
Check this <a href="http://iidb.org/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=51&t=000380&p=" target="_blank">Thread</a> you could find it useful.

Daniel_AnglumTM

I dont think the existance of Jesus can be proved either way, (as a human not the Godman). If we cast out net far enough we are likely to find a historical Jesus or Jesuses that vaguely coroberate with NT accounts (vaguely) if NT were reliable documents rather than unambigious theology i would be in a better postion to judge but from the nature of the evidence it must and always must remain inconclusive.

Frivolous

Jesus is real and he does not need to be proven. He needs to be felt. Perhaps if you would open your hearts and minds a little, you would feel him like the millions of other Christians already have.

Maverick

Hello Frivolous - Welcome to the forum

That said, I would like to give you a bit of friendly advice. Simple preaching does not go over well in the "upper forums". We do have a forum for preaching that you could avail yourself of if you wanted.

Many (if not the majority) of the atheists here were once Christians, so we are aware of the standard dogma. You would do much better providing something substantive.

Maverick - BC&A Moderator

Oh, BTW, how is this "feeling" of yours any different than the feelings a member of any other religion has towards their diety?

Frivolous

It is a feeling both wholly and truly warm and touching. I wish that you would feel it too...