Yellum Notnef

Less than 24 hours ago Fiach said:

Less than an hour ago Volker.Doormann said:
Volker.Doorman also provided this link about it.


I`m not accusing anyone here of being wrong and I`m certainly not saying that the Christian trinity is anything other than bullshit that was borrowed from much older traditions. BUT there are a few very annoying theists here who follow us around like flies looking for inconsistencies.
The more inconsistencies (actual or perceived) that these people find means the longer they are going to be hanging around nipping at our heels.

Can we please sort out this Egyptian/Indian/Christian trinity business once and for all?

Btw,
When I said "we" I was not referring to any Christians here who might be eager to lend a hand.

Spaz

I'm interested too, so bump

Biff the unclean

Trinities were as common as dirt 2000 years ago.
I would bet on The Father, Son and Holy Ghost from Bysantium being the one the Xians ripped off, right time, right place and right characters.
Here it was Zeus, Dionysos and Semele. Semele was not only the Holy Ghost (she had been killed and Dionysos brought her back from the under world to Olympus. In this story, unlike Xianity, a Holy "Ghost" makes sense) but she was also the virgin mother of the born again (what the word dionysus means) savior

Amos

That is probably so because ever man has got one of his own. In my view, the trinity is the left brain, right brain and mediation between these two.

If I understand you righ there, Biff, Semele was the Holy Ghost and the virgin mother of Dionysos who brought her back from the underworld after rebirth.

Is that not just the same as what I wrote about Mary, who will be our mother after we are born again? The descend of the dove is equal to the redundancy of the HS because the same person (Mary here) who before send the HS to come around every now and then, is now our very own "seat of wisdom" and therefore we have no longer any need for the HS. Hence, the dove can desend because who needs the HS if we now have the source of wisdom in your own mind. This here, then, is what the wedding in Cana is all about where we will meet our very own new "head waitress" who will be in charge during the next phase of our life. This period we call purgatory and is what the Gospels are all about.

Biff the unclean

Semele was pregnant by Zeus, and she was so happy about it that she told everybody. Hera caught word of this and confronted her. Semele told Hera that she didn't dare hurt her that Zeus would protect her because Zeus loved her best. Oh yeah, said Hera, Zeus will show me his full radiance but he doesn't think enough of you to let you see.
The next time Semele saw Zeus she made him promise that he would give her what she asked for. He agreed, and she asked to see him in all of his splendor. Seeing that she turned into a smoking pile of ash. But the baby, being a Demigod, survived the blast. Since he wasn't full term Zeus slit open his own thigh with his fingernail and slipped the baby inside until it was ready to be born. So since he was born once and again he received the name Dionysus.

When he was grown, after he turned water into wine at a wedding party but before he walked on water, Dionysus went to Tartarus for three days and rescued his mother's ghost from Hades. He brought her to Mount Olympus and made her holy so that she could dwell amongst the Gods.
:notworthy :notworthy :notworthy

Spaz

Lucky they didn't have copyrights back then

JGL53

I'm wondering, is there ANYTHING original in christinsanity, or is it ALL a giant ripoff of more ancient religions?

Amos

If it was "origional" in your sense of the word original it could not point at an archetypal reality.

This is also the reason why all mythologies must be transparent and recognize validity in each other. Any religion that does not do this is dangerous and will always be the cause of war while the true religion will be the peace maker because there now is a need to make peace.

the_cave

Sure, there's plenty that's original. But what's wrong with adapting ideas from other traditions? Christianity also recognizes the truths in other religions, though it considers them to be only partial truths. Call it what you like, but that's how the Catholics, at least, think about it. Shakespeare was a major "rip-off" artist--does that somehow diminish his achievement? At the very least, Christianity is a creative union of disparate ideas, some original, some not. The same is true for any religion.

As for the trinity, the unfortunate answer to the original question is: there is no way to sort it all out. "Trinities" of various sorts do occur here and there in more than one tradition. I doubt anyone will ever come up with a single origin for it. There may be no single origin. I myself don't hold this against atheists, so you need not fear me

Amos

Interesting to say the least. I think he was courageous and much more than that. Could you tell me what you base that on or lead me to it? I think he wrote satires against the CoE and placed his own life at ransom.

Thanks.