Autonemesis

Grammar suck. Me go to sleep now.

Typhon

I am fine with Satanists being in the march.

I do not think it either fair, right, or beneficial to keep a genuinely non-theist group out of the march, no matter what the association may be, correctly or incorrectly with their name.

Some may make me wince, for example, a vocal group of white supremacists or other hate mongers, if (unlike what is typical) they just happened to be a non-theist group. I'd rather have Satanists over this ilk, any day.

Besides, I am happy to have anyone in the march, theist or non-theist, who wants to show support for atheists and non-theists having a voice and fair treatment in both politics and society.

If people are there to support this, that is fine with me.

.T.

Novowels

It's pretty sad when you can hardly tell the difference between the II board and the BB. (note to self: the II board has a few people that can think on it.)

Satanists are Godless.

It's a Godless March.

Let 'em march.

Just because "Joe Sixpack" is a freaking idiot doesn't mean we should exclude a genuinely godless organization (not sure I'd call it a church ) from marching with the plain ol' atheist. Or parading. Or whatever.

Maybe Joe will get on the net, search up on "those wacky Satanists" and learn something.

Maybe he'll rant and rave about "Satan-worshipping atheists."

Maybe he'll go get another six-pack and drink himself "stupider."

Who cares what he does? What matters is what we do. If I were in charge of this march (and you all should be very thankful I'm not!) I'd find it hard to look myself in the mirror for not letting people march just because I "didn't agree with their label."

"The Pedophiles." Wasn't that an acappela(sp?) group?

Oh, and I'm not allowed to dress up like Darth Vader? DAMMIT. Actually, I'm not even sure I can get the time off from work yet. But yer damn sure I'm trying, and I'll march next to agnostic, naturalist, satanist, atheist, and any other god-free human being that makes their way to DC.

-William

Stephen T-B

Satan, Ryan52 should know, is a cat. My cat. My imaginary cat, with a mouth the size of a door, Teflon-coated steel teeth and claws of titanium. At night Satan creeps up on you unwares in your dreams and eats your eyeballs.
How do I know?
She ate mine only the other night, and the reason people meeting me don’t know is because Satan doesn’t want them to. That way she can eat eyeballs galore and not cause a panic.
The Great Atheist in the Apple Tree has been a big help in all of this. After we’ve had sex and I’m lying exhausted on a near-by branch (GAAT is a VERY demanding lover, but doesn’t like anything too out of the ordinary) she gives me little pearls of wisdom. For instance, this Logical Granny Knot I want to share with you.
You can be certain that what you believe in is real, she said, because if it wasn’t real you wouldn’t believe in it!
That proves Satan is my imaginary cat, and I’m not sure I care for any old Satanist coming along and saying different.

phlebas

To infuse some new viewpoints into this thread (and since it's evolved into something more substantial than the typical RRP fare), I've moved it to Misc Religion Discussions.

Enjoy!

Starspun

It seems we have all made up our minds one way or the other, so debating/arguing is pretty moot at this point.
All I will add is that I did an informal poll by phone. It is not a scientific poll, per se, just one question from an anonymous poller using a calling card so they couldn't get my home phone # on caller ID.

me: Good day, sir/maam, I am conducting a poll on different beliefs in America. Do you believe Satanist's worship Satan? (this is all said real fast so they couldn't get a word in.)

5 churches
5 residents

of the 10 surveyed, all 5 from the churches answered yes. 3 resident's hung up, 2 answered yes.

after the question was answered, I kindly thanked them for their time and hung up.

My informal poll shows 70% believe Satanist's worship Satan.

[ August 01, 2002: Message edited by: Starspun ]</p>

RyanS2

Isn't "Argument ad populum" a fallacy argument? I'll try one. I'm going to call up 30 people and ask them to explain what the Second Law of Thermodynamics is. Going by percentage, we will then see what the Second Law of Thermodynamics is. Also, for those unfamiliar with testing, how you phrase words or "implied suggestion" (i.e. an informal poll where the people are trying to get you to shut up), has a big thing with how the results go. This was made famous a few years back by the Canadian government having an unusually small amount of atheists in it. Regardless, as someone else pointed out, what Joe Sixpack knows about the Second Law of Thermodynamics, Hinduism, Plato's Unmoveable Mover, atheism, and Satanism have nothing to do with whether or not any of them are accepted or even remotely understood.

Dark Jedi

Thank you, and welcome then.

I personally have no problem with your inclusion as your beliefs seem to apply. I would have a problem with the negative press that would entail from banners, placards, etc portaying satanism to those with a false idea of what you are about.
You must admit that that false idea is the prevailing belief, and that the association is one that is hard to throw off. I applaud your choice not to lend that false association to others for them to have to throw off as well.

Starspun

Who is arguing? I said, 'It seems we have all made up our minds one way or the other, so debating/arguing is pretty moot at this point.'


<img src="graemlins/banghead.gif" border="0" alt="[Bang Head]" />

Bible Humper

Hello Kind Bud, 'nother day, 'nother holler

I have highlighted where you went wrong in you post, the legality of Satanism or pedophilia is completely irrelevant to what I was saying. The harmful effects, or lack thereof, of Satanism or pedophilia are completely irrelevant to what I was saying.

The christians have even worse opinions of the word "Satanist" than they do of the word "pedophile".

What percentage of Joe Sixpackers do you think have heard of LeVey, much less his philosophy? Just take a guess.

Well, I was under the impression that this march was a political event and that it was thus important to be careful of what image was presented. Since RyanS2 is not planning to display the word "Satanist" at the march, I would say that he should be welcome also.

Well, Joe Sixpack is the freaking idiot that this march was meant to reach out to for the general acceptance of atheists. The entire point of this march is to get Joe Sixpack to say to himself "Dem guys ain't dat bad". Satanists have a self-inflicted image problem that would be played up by a media who will go to nearly any length to sensationalise anything. If the way this march is perceived is completely irrelevant, or if the Satanists refrain from marching with banners proclaiming the name of their religion, then I would welcome the Satanists aswell.

He also might turn into a turnip instead, there is a 50/50 chance of either, I'd wager.

This is what I'm worried about.

Forgone conclusion....

/sarcasm They were just projecting their distaste for LeVey Satanism, Starspun, they all knew deep down inside that Satanism has nothing to do with Satan, but are just incapable of admitting it! Haven't you figured that out yet?

Nice try, LyanS2.

The informal poll had NOTHING to do with what Satanism "really is".

The informal poll had EVERYTHING to do with what people THINK Satanism "really is".

Are you still pretending that LeVey is a household word, and that his philosophy is widely known?

Exactly!!!! Bravo!!! Woo Hoo!!!!

What your "Satanism" really is about could not be less relevant. The acceptance and understanding, or lack thereof, of the word "Satanism" by Joe Sixpack is what is important, and this is exactly what I've been saying, and you have been avoiding, throughout this entire thread.

Exactly, I agree with this 100%. If the Satanists are willing to make that effort to avoid perpetuating the inevitable misconceptions that are associated with the word "Satanist", I have no problem with their participation.