Psychic

know what? I find it really non-sensible the matter why are we built into this way? and i don't believe this to be any where even near human nature.

To me I think it is easy to think “lots of people might have called the police and my call would make no difference” or “someone else will give a hand” is that because at an unconscious level people are too scared or too lazy to do it.

Consider the opposite. For example let’s imagine a TV show where the home audience are supposed to give phone calls, and ONLY the First caller is to win a 5000$ prize! I am ready to put all my money on the fact that 90% of the people would call and say “hell, what do you know? I just might be the first one” “even that it has been 5 minutes since the contest begun, BUT maybe no one else is watching but me!” “maybe others will think that it can’t be true” maybe and maybe. I’ll bet they would find hundreds of arguments supporting the fact that they could be the first callers.

So I don’t really think it’s these cognitions of “my call won’t make a difference” are the problem. I think the problem is deeper, at an emotional level, that people really don’t regard it rewarding to help others.

Within a healthier society one can easily see how helping others would be materially and psychological rewarding. But actually I haven’t lived in such callous cities to even start thinking what went wrong with those people.

sweep

I considered this and wondered if Catherine Genovese, had she shouted: 'I have a thousand dollars to give if someone will help me! could have bought her way out of the situation.

Groupthink is certainly a dangerous thing. I see this a lot: the need to conform; the need to fit in; and the risk of stepping out. In the bridge/suicide example offered by Jackalope, it only takes one or two to shout 'jump' and the rest will jump on the bandwaggon. But we're all individuals. Not everyone in such a crowd would be willing to join in the jeering, as strong as the herd mentality becomes. If people stand to gain they will, and abandon their morality in the process. People get carried away, and it seems they're not likely to help unless there is something in it for themselves.

Of course its easy to see that people don't want to risk their own lives either. With an indiscriminate killer in the neighborhood, the group must decide who will shoulder the burden of facing the threat. But what is good for the group is not good for the individual: 'what about my needs' Since the law are responsible in maintaining a chaos free environment, why not go back to bed and leave the city in charge?

Yet what I saw was a very old woman falling and hitting her head against the metal upright on a bus stop, in broad daylight. I was walking in the direction of the bus stop and it took me about a minute to get there. None of the women stood near to the old woman did a thing. They just stood and gawped. There was no risk involved. All they had to do was stoop to engage the old woman. She was really old and frail.

Still, there's this herd mentality that seems to pervade our world. Aqua Vita and myself acted when people needed help, but there are so many that don't. Why is this?

Overgrowngoblin

A friend of mine who works for the Chicago PD always says if you find yourself in trouble downtown don’t shout out ‘help police’ but instead shout out ‘help fire.’ Many more people will respond by calling 911. If you’re being attacked it’s your problem but if there is a fire it could soon become my problem so I had better call someone for help.

I can really understand this thinking. When I lived in a small town on a large lot, every loud noise I heard I investigated. It was my problem to deal with and I wanted to know that nothing weird was happening on my watch. When I moved to downtown Chicago, at first every little noise that occurred I would look out of the windows and try to see what was happening. It was usually a group of drunken people or the crazy guy shouting for Jesus. After awhile I just stopped paying attention. Just like I stopped hearing the El train down the street.

Psychic

Group thinking, social facilitation…etc to me these phenomena support the fact that natural selection has long ago shaped our minds into more harmony with each other. We are made to do whatever it takes to belong to a group, to live in groups, and to defend ourselves as groups. In the ancestral environment it would have made the difference between life and death, to be able to belong to a group and be accepted by the members of a group.

And in the stories you guys told, as I mentioned, I find support for the theory that we are designed to unconsciously follow groups, I also find support to the fact that despite the exquisite level of conscious behavior we humans show, we are still, more or less, under the spell of our emotional or unconscious system that mother nature implanted in us, as animals, before the dawn of consciousness.

Nevertheless that doesn’t mean that we should be working on primitive impulses, we should be able to use our cognitive apparatus at those moments when we need it the most. Now sitting at home, you can clearly use your logic and feel disgusted by the behavior of those people, who stood watching. But there is no way to know what YOU would have done if you were there! Would you have been able to activate your conscious thinking and make the right decision? I really doubt that most of us here will really show a different behavior. Other than doing what every body around seems to be doing.

how many of you guys think he would acted consciously and made the right decision????



Man! and i was planning to start my residency program in Chicago! I think being a not-that-good Doctor, is better than being a not-that-alive doctor. I think i'll head to Australia or something.

Overgrowngoblin

Assaults (per capita)
U.S. 7.98 per 1,000 people
Australia 7.22 per 1,000 people

Burglaries (per capita)
U.S. 7.48 per 1,000 people
Australia 22.35 per 1,000 people

Car thefts (per capita)
U.S. 4.09 per 1,000 people
Australia 7.12 per 1,000 people

Murders (per capita)
U.S. 0.05 per 1,000 people
Australia 0.02 per 1,000 people

Rapes (per capita)
U.S. 0.32 per 1,000 people
Australia 0.8 per 1,000 people

Robberies (per capita)
U.S. 1.46 per 1,000 people
Australia 1.19 per 1,000 people

But I’m sure Australia is much safer than the U.S. off paper.

NationMaster Statistics based in Sydney Australia.

sweep

by and large I'm in agreement with you psychic, but I would like you to think about the example that I offered, of my own experiences. While we may unconsciously adapt to fit in and move as a cohesive social force, this kind of mentality is not without its pitfalls.

Of course, we're not totally driven by our emotions, we have reasons too. what, psychic, do you think the difference was between me, who helped the injured old lady, and the other women at the bus stop. I think its a really hard question to answer, since there are many individual differences to consider. Look at the initial example and look at the reasons they didn't help out. Can we assess the authenticity of those reasons? Could reason be an enemy of the conscious person? Do our brains fools us as a method of self preservation?

there aren't any straightforward answers, but it seems, in line with the title of this thread, that the right thing to do is to follow what everyone else is doing? I question that mentality, in situations such as those posited. In other situations, such as sitting on a bus, or attending a lecture we are required to do little, but its important to realise when individual thought is called for. Take, for example, a case in Japan where a man wielding a knife held a bus full of people hostage. From what I remember the police didn't do much of anything. Those on the bus, given a concerted effort could easily have overpowered the knife man but they didn't. They sat there and they were getting stabbed one by one.

As a being that thinks a lot I often find myself in situations where initiative is called for. I don't ask myself: 'who is going to do something', I do something, and I am rewarded by my own body for doing so. In some cases taking control is worth while. If it costs me my life, so be it. Why? because, I reason, if I fail to take risks, based on a 'what if' philosophy then I suffer from a weak will. I subjugate myself and resign myself to conditions, reasoning that I have no control over conditions when they arise. That is one important lesson that I must act upon with increasing vigilance.

Born Free

One cold new years eve I was on my way to a party with a boyfriend years ago now I was about 17. We passed a bus stop and saw a man lying on the ground. People had passed him barely seconds before us. I went to ask if he was alright. He was an elderly man who had fallen and had a head injury. We got an ambulance and the crew made a fuss of us telling us we were a shining example of goodness.

I got quite angry at this, I considered it the decent and normal thing to do. The people who had passed him by had obviously taken him to be just another drunk.

Consider this story too, not quite in the same league as a human crying for help but distressing for us all the same.

It was one am and the still night air was suddenly shattered by the shrill, piercing scream of an animal in distress. My partner and I sat upright in bed looked at each other and scrambled for our clothes.

We ran roughly 150 yards, the screaming getting louder, finally we reach a clearing to see a fox holding a cat down. It looked up at us letting the cat go for a second, the cat needed no written invitation to get the hell out of dodge. To our relief it fled the scene as did the fox.

Now the sad thing is there were houses less than 6 feet from the cat, all any of the occupants had to do was open the front door there were also flats less than 10 feet away. Yet nobody did anything.

It happened again less than 6 months later in the exact same spot, sadly we were too late there were two foxes the cat didn't get up and run.

Some might say it's only a cat but I wonder if it was a human would the result be the same??? I was beside myself with rage and if my partner hadn't dragged me away from shouting abuse at the houses I probably would have been arrested for breach of the peace.

I would never ignore anyone in distress. Ever. And I cannot understand those that do.