FRDB Archives

Freethought & Rationalism Archive

The archives are read only.


Go Back   FRDB Archives > Archives > IIDB ARCHIVE: 200X-2003, PD 2007 > IIDB Philosophical Forums (PRIOR TO JUN-2003)
Welcome, Peter Kirby.
You last visited: Today at 05:55 AM

 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 08-27-2002, 07:03 AM   #21
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Boulder, Colorado
Posts: 46
Post

How is it that Hitler is seen as one of the most evil men in history(which he is) but Moses, who among others gave the command in Numbers 31 verse 17:

"Now therefore kill every male among the little ones[the Midian captives], and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him.But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves."

is highly regarded as some great man of god? Why is what he did considered good?
Alex Moon is offline  
Old 08-27-2002, 07:35 AM   #22
K
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Chicago
Posts: 1,485
Post

Here are a few.

1. Why does God value a person doing good because of the promise of reward / fear of punishment? Wouldn't He be getting the most holy of His creatures if He picked the atheists and agnostics who behave morally strictly for the sake of personal integrity?

2. If Christianity is correct and Trinity is really just one god, then who was minding the store when He/They were dead for three days?

3. If there is only a small percentage of the population that will make it into Heaven, and if the rest will spend eternity in Hell with Satan, shouldn't we go with the odds and worship Satan to try to get on his "good" side?
K is offline  
Old 08-27-2002, 08:32 AM   #23
Banned
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: a place where i can list whatever location i want
Posts: 4,871
Post

Nice questions, but remember, this is a Catholic preist and a rabbi, not fundie protestants, so some of these questions won't be applicable or relevent. Especially questions about hell, and I think these two subscribe to the PC "separation from Gawd" version.
GunnerJ is offline  
Old 08-27-2002, 09:50 AM   #24
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 1,427
Post

Quote:
Originally posted by The Lone Ranger:
<strong>

I've never seen much value in Deism myself. Why revere a God who -- by you own admission -- doesn't care about us?

Most Deists, as far as I can tell, seem to believe in a God who doesn't concern himself with our petty everyday affairs, but who might be a basically-decent bloke who'll grant them life after death. Apparently, Deists are people who have faced reality and recognized that the Universe doesn't seem to care about us, but can't quite manage to give up their God beliefs.

My take on it is that Deism is Atheism for those who don't have the courage to give up Theism.

[In fairness, many people are so thoroughly indoctrinated into Theism that they're probably incapable of imagining a godless Universe. Deism may be as close to Atheism as they're capable of.]

Cheers,

Michael

[ August 26, 2002: Message edited by: The Lone Ranger ]</strong>
I don't think Deism necessarily means that you "revere" the Deistic god. It just means that you believe there is one. This might be an avenue for people who are persuaded by arguments from First Cause/Intelligent Design etc. but deny the specific tenets of the major religions.
bluefugue is offline  
Old 08-27-2002, 09:59 AM   #25
K
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Chicago
Posts: 1,485
Post

Rimstalker:

Good point. I didn't keep the target audience in mind. I add this question instead.

If my conscience tells me to do something other than what my religion tells me to do, which one should I follow? If I should follow my conscience, does it mean that religion is superfluous? If I should follow the teachings of my religion, does it follow that any acts honestly committed in the name of God are acceptable?
K is offline  
Old 08-27-2002, 12:16 PM   #26
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: secularcafe.org
Posts: 9,525
Post

Oh, here's one to make 'em sweat-

We can be sure that the 9/11 terrorists had great faith in the God they were brought up to believe. How can we know what God truly wants of us, and what is distortion by evil or blind men?
Jobar is offline  
Old 08-27-2002, 12:37 PM   #27
Beloved Deceased
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Carrboro, NC
Posts: 1,539
Post

Pick and choose (and possibly reword) some of the questions from my theist-destroying quiz. The link is at my homepage. I suggest the ones from mind/body dualism and the afterlife along with human psychology as a bare minimum.
WinAce is offline  
Old 08-27-2002, 02:55 PM   #28
Banned
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: a place where i can list whatever location i want
Posts: 4,871
Post

Something prospective question-submiters might want to consider; the two authors are a Jew and a Catholic... seemingly making a united front, and accepting each other's religions as acceptable. Are there any scripturally or historically based questions that might challenge this "union?"
GunnerJ is offline  
Old 08-27-2002, 05:04 PM   #29
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Planet Lovetron
Posts: 3,919
Post

Quote:
Mostly, if there is no God, the believers would have to try thinking for themselves, which is probably the worst fate of all.
This is kind of a silly stereotype, don't you think? There have been some pretty smart Christians over the centuries who have had some pretty heated disuptes amongst themselves. Do you think believing in God makes a person unable to think for themselves?

Could Martin Luther, for example, think for himself?

I've noticed that you guys generally associate all belief with the kind of evangelical Christianity to which you are most often exposed. You are quite justified in not believing in that presentation of Chrisitianity, but it is silly and careless to operate under the delusion that their often herd-like expression of their faith is indicative of all Christianity (or worse, of all religion).

For the record, I am quite capable of thinking for myself.
luvluv is offline  
Old 08-27-2002, 05:14 PM   #30
Regular Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Auc kland, NZ
Posts: 253
Post

Quote:
Originally posted by luvluv:
<strong>

This is kind of a silly stereotype, don't you think? There have been some pretty smart Christians over the centuries who have had some pretty heated disuptes amongst themselves. Do you think believing in God makes a person unable to think for themselves?

Could Martin Luther, for example, think for himself?

I've noticed that you guys generally associate all belief with the kind of evangelical Christianity to which you are most often exposed. You are quite justified in not believing in that presentation of Chrisitianity, but it is silly and careless to operate under the delusion that their often herd-like expression of their faith is indicative of all Christianity (or worse, of all religion).

For the record, I am quite capable of thinking for myself.</strong>

its my experience from having had some very smart friends who are Christians that belief prevents CERTAIN thoughts. Its as if a small area of the brain is walled off with 'don't touch' and therefore certain questions simply don't get rational responses. Sometimes its quite shocking to see this in action.
Mark_Chid is offline  
 

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 08:41 PM.

Top

This custom BB emulates vBulletin® Version 3.8.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.