Freethought & Rationalism Archive

GunnerJ · 08-26-2002, 12:03 PM

<a href="http://newsday.com/mynews/ny-p2squad2835993aug24.story" target="_blank">For Agnostic Son, Deistic Dialogue</a>

I'll cut out the tripe about how the advice-seeker should "be glad that [her son] is only an agnostic and not yet an atheist." Here's the meat of the deal:

Quote:

Here are our best proofs for God. Use them as conversation starters, but understand that your son's God talk is really just a cover for other questions about the meaning of life and his place in the world.

We think God is real, because if there was no God there would be nothing to start the world.

If there is no God, there would be no reason to do good. If there is no God, there would be no difference between people and animals. If there is no God, there would be no souls and no chance that souls could live on after death.

Mostly, if there is no God, there is no reason to get out of bed in the morning and no reason to believe that life has an edge over death, hope an edge over despair and love an edge over hate.

Oy... I'm not writing this for advice, as I could tip these "proofs" over by blowing on them. I just wanted to show you the great quality of rationality offered to the EoG debate by a rabbi and a preist with a nationally syndicated (!!!) newspaper column.

Jayhawker Soule · 08-26-2002, 12:08 PM

I particularly appreciate the opening line, i.e.:

Quote:

First of all, be glad that Sean is only an agnostic and not yet an atheist. Saying he is an agnostic and is not sure about God seems to us to be an important but veiled request for spiritual guidance.

I never did like agnosticism!

Perchance · 08-26-2002, 12:11 PM

Yet another point for continuing to debate the existence of God. This really matters to some people; they really think that anyone save those who declare a disbelief in God believes in God, and that for the "strayed," weak arguments will bring them back into the fold.

I think this is probably the most valuable service this forum provides. It proves that there are people who do care about the quality of arguments for and against God, and while it may not convince every theist who stumbles across it, at least it's doing its part to keep the discussion alive and moving, rather than settled in the direction of indifference or "God exists, end of subject."

In a way, it is rather scary that there is an Internet forum with a better quality of argument than a newspaper.

-Perchance.

Jayhawker Soule · 08-26-2002, 12:11 PM

By the way, now that the subject's been raised, could someone tell me the value of Deism? What good is a 1-trick God?

Darwin's Finch · 08-26-2002, 12:12 PM

Heh. If the kid is half as "super bright" as the mother claims, he will see these "best proofs" for the horsepucky they are. I love it when believers unwittingly bat for the secular team.

The Other Michael · 08-26-2002, 12:16 PM

Mostly, if there is no God, the believers would have to try thinking for themselves, which is probably the worst fate of all.

cheers,
Michael

Grumpy · 08-26-2002, 02:43 PM

Quote:

Here are our best proofs for God.

They must be joking.

Mageth · 08-26-2002, 02:57 PM

"If there is no God, we'd have to get REAL jobs!!!"

GodLessWarriorTM · 08-26-2002, 03:06 PM

I havent been able to find there contact, but I'd really like to send them some of my questions.

lpetrich · 08-26-2002, 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mageth:
<strong>"If there is no God, we'd have to get REAL jobs!!!"</strong>

LOL!!!

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08-26-2002, 12:11 PM	#3
Perchance Veteran Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: Kentucky Posts: 1,059	Yet another point for continuing to debate the existence of God. This really matters to some people; they really think that anyone save those who declare a disbelief in God believes in God, and that for the "strayed," weak arguments will bring them back into the fold. I think this is probably the most valuable service this forum provides. It proves that there are people who do care about the quality of arguments for and against God, and while it may not convince every theist who stumbles across it, at least it's doing its part to keep the discussion alive and moving, rather than settled in the direction of indifference or "God exists, end of subject." In a way, it is rather scary that there is an Internet forum with a better quality of argument than a newspaper. -Perchance.

08-26-2002, 12:11 PM	#4
Jayhawker Soule Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Chicago Posts: 1,777	By the way, now that the subject's been raised, could someone tell me the value of Deism? What good is a 1-trick God?

08-26-2002, 12:12 PM	#5
Darwin's Finch Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Gardnerville, NV Posts: 666	Heh. If the kid is half as "super bright" as the mother claims, he will see these "best proofs" for the horsepucky they are. I love it when believers unwittingly bat for the secular team.

08-26-2002, 12:16 PM	#6
The Other Michael Honorary Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: In the fog of San Francisco Posts: 12,631	Mostly, if there is no God, the believers would have to try thinking for themselves, which is probably the worst fate of all. cheers, Michael

08-26-2002, 02:57 PM	#8
Mageth Contributor Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Deep in the heart of mother-lovin' Texas Posts: 29,689	"If there is no God, we'd have to get REAL jobs!!!"

08-26-2002, 03:06 PM	#9
GodLessWarriorTM Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: NJ Posts: 15	I havent been able to find there contact, but I'd really like to send them some of my questions.

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