Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Viti · 12-02-2001, 09:31 AM

:::at a loss for words::: <img src="graemlins/banghead.gif" border="0" alt="[Bang Head]" />

Lone Wolf · 12-02-2001, 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by buttercup:
If you are sincere in that you are ashamed, then you should pray to God and ask for His forgiveness.

Why should anyone beg for 'forgiveness' from someone who can't even follow his own rules?

excreationist · 12-02-2001, 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by buttercup:
JohnClay,

Yes, stealing a pack of chewing gum and skinning your family alive both turn us away from God, and the spiritual consequences(sp?) are the same. However, the earthly consequences(sp?) are different. Stealing a pack of gum is petty theft, and skinning your family alive is homicide. The punishments for these two crimes are different in that one is killing your family and the other is petty theft. The spiritual consequences are the same, they take you futher away from God and result in an eternity in Hell unless you sincerely repent, but the earthly consequences are different. I hope that makes sense.

Ok, so some sins have more serious earthly consequences than others, though all sins are equally bad in the eyes of God.

buttercup · 12-02-2001, 03:08 PM

Lone Wolf-

"Why should anyone beg for 'forgiveness' from someone who can't even follow his own rules? "

Are you going to back up your claim or just let it sit?

JohnClay- correct.

Jane Bovary · 12-02-2001, 03:15 PM

So...does that mean eternal suffering and damnation in hell for stealing chewing-gum?

Lone Wolf · 12-02-2001, 03:21 PM

"You shall not murder"?

Genesis 7:20-23 - Nearly all life, including pregnant women, innocent children, and animals sentenced to death by means of catastrophic flood.

Exodus 9:8-11,25 - Tortured the Egyptians with disease because a pharaoh refused to let the Israelites leave.

Exodus 12:29-30 - Passover execution of Egyptian babies.

Deuteronomy 7:1-2 - Extermination of men, women, and children of seven nations (then steal their land).

II Samuel 12:13-18 - As punishment for David's adultery with Bathsheba, kill David's baby.

Romans 3:24-25 - Torture and murder of his own son.

I Samuel 15:3 - "Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass."

Hosea 13:16 - "Samaria shall become desolate; for she hath rebelled against her God: they shall fall by the sword: their infants shall be dashed in pieces, and their women with child shall be ripped up."

Deuteronomy 32:23-25 - "I will spend mine arrows upon them. . . . The sword without, and terror within, shall destroy both the young man and the virgin, the suckling also with the man of gray hairs."

In other words, it's ok for the big guy to be a murdering psychopath, but not for us lab rats?

ex-preacher · 12-02-2001, 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by buttercup:
Mad Kally-

Sinning is serious, but it can be redeemed. If you are sincere in that you are ashamed, then you should pray to God and ask for His forgiveness. You said eariler that your mom told you that sins are all the same- you should talk to her and to God. I hope this helps.

According to Christian teaching, Jeffrey Daumer (who found religion in prison) is in heaven while any of his victims who weren't "right with Jesus" will burn in hell eternally.

In recent days, I've heard 3 preachers (Falwell, Colson, and Bush's preacher Kirby something) all say that Christians should pray for Osama Bin Laden to accept Christ. He then would go to heaven. Meanwhile, all the atheists, agnostics, Buddhists, Hindus, Muslims, etc who died on 9-11 will burn in hell forever.

I've heard preachers say proudly that even Hitler could have been saved if he repented and accepted Jesus at the last minute. What they don't mention is the corollary - Anne Frank and 6 million other Jews went from the quick-killing ovens of the Nazis to God's slow-cooking eternal oven, where "the worm never dies and the fire is never quenched."

buttercup · 12-02-2001, 05:24 PM

ex-preacher

You are absolutly correct. Jeffrey Dahmer, if he truly accepted Christ and was sincere about it, it in heaven. And yes, we should pray for Osama Bin Laden to accept Christ. Yes, if he accepts Christ and is sincere about it, he will go to heaven while all the non-Christians who died on 9-11 will be in hell for all eternity. It might not seem fair, but in all entirety it is. They had time to learn and seek Christ. If they died, it was because God knew it was their time. I'm sorry if I sound cold-hearted, but its true.

Lone Wolf- I'm sorry but am not able to come up with a response to your query at this moment, but I will have one tomorrow afternoon.

99Percent · 12-02-2001, 06:30 PM

yeah my dear buttercup, ask your pastor and expect him to say: "The Lord acts in mysterious ways..."

ex-preacher: Just brutal, very brutal. Excellent.

scigirl · 12-02-2001, 06:33 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by buttercup:
And yes, we should pray for Osama Bin Laden to accept Christ. Yes, if he accepts Christ and is sincere about it, he will go to heaven while all the non-Christians who died on 9-11 will be in hell for all eternity. It might not seem fair, but in all entirety it is.

How exactly is this "fair?" And why, if belief is the only thing you need, did Jesus focus so much time on healing people and helping them live better lives? If belief is enough, he shouldn't have needed to do all that other stuff, correct? One parable would have been sufficient.

There is no absolute proof that Jesus is the son of God. He wasn't even good enough to convince all of the people during his own time. Yet people should just accept by 'faith' even though evidence often tells them otherwise?

Does God love sheep (people who just blindly accept the religion they were spoon-fed by their parents and only do the right thing to avoid hell) more than he loves thinkers and questioners of the world? If so, how fair is that?

How about all the native tribes in africa, south america, and north america? Did these people suffer eternal Hell just because God did not feel like gracing their presence with his amazing Son? If it is that important to believe in Christ, why didn't God do a better job spreading his message--at least to all the continents? Or maybe he did, and more than one religion is true? Which is it, buttercup: 1)God didn't care about the native americans, implying he is not fair, or 2) God sent more than one messenger, implying that your religion is not the only truth?

scigirl

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version	Search this Thread: Advanced Search

12-02-2001, 09:31 AM	#11
Viti Contributor Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Down South Posts: 12,879	:::at a loss for words::: <img src="graemlins/banghead.gif" border="0" alt="[Bang Head]" />

12-02-2001, 03:08 PM	#14
buttercup Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 40	Lone Wolf- "Why should anyone beg for 'forgiveness' from someone who can't even follow his own rules? " Are you going to back up your claim or just let it sit? JohnClay- correct.

12-02-2001, 03:15 PM	#15
Jane Bovary Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: The Fatal Shore Posts: 900	So...does that mean eternal suffering and damnation in hell for stealing chewing-gum?

12-02-2001, 03:21 PM	#16
Lone Wolf Regular Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 383	"You shall not murder"? Genesis 7:20-23 - Nearly all life, including pregnant women, innocent children, and animals sentenced to death by means of catastrophic flood. Exodus 9:8-11,25 - Tortured the Egyptians with disease because a pharaoh refused to let the Israelites leave. Exodus 12:29-30 - Passover execution of Egyptian babies. Deuteronomy 7:1-2 - Extermination of men, women, and children of seven nations (then steal their land). II Samuel 12:13-18 - As punishment for David's adultery with Bathsheba, kill David's baby. Romans 3:24-25 - Torture and murder of his own son. I Samuel 15:3 - "Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass." Hosea 13:16 - "Samaria shall become desolate; for she hath rebelled against her God: they shall fall by the sword: their infants shall be dashed in pieces, and their women with child shall be ripped up." Deuteronomy 32:23-25 - "I will spend mine arrows upon them. . . . The sword without, and terror within, shall destroy both the young man and the virgin, the suckling also with the man of gray hairs." In other words, it's ok for the big guy to be a murdering psychopath, but not for us lab rats?

12-02-2001, 05:24 PM	#18
buttercup Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 40	ex-preacher You are absolutly correct. Jeffrey Dahmer, if he truly accepted Christ and was sincere about it, it in heaven. And yes, we should pray for Osama Bin Laden to accept Christ. Yes, if he accepts Christ and is sincere about it, he will go to heaven while all the non-Christians who died on 9-11 will be in hell for all eternity. It might not seem fair, but in all entirety it is. They had time to learn and seek Christ. If they died, it was because God knew it was their time. I'm sorry if I sound cold-hearted, but its true. Lone Wolf- I'm sorry but am not able to come up with a response to your query at this moment, but I will have one tomorrow afternoon.

12-02-2001, 06:30 PM	#19
99Percent Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: my mind Posts: 5,996	yeah my dear buttercup, ask your pastor and expect him to say: "The Lord acts in mysterious ways..." ex-preacher: Just brutal, very brutal. Excellent.

Freethought & Rationalism Archive

The archives are read only.