Ensign Steve

Philosophy is the love of knowledge. If you love something, it's probably not a burden. The task of learning _all_ of any subject is probably impossible, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't try.

Seraphim

By Ensign Steve

Philosophy is the love of knowledge. If you love something, it's probably not a burden. The task of learning _all_ of any subject is probably impossible, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't try.

You don't need to look for answers in books, you have ALL the answers you seek in your mind (Soul, for those who believes).

Learning about other people's religions and beliefs will not bring understandings about them, JUST more confusion.

Only good thing about it is that it MAY produce understanding and tolerance.

Nowhere357

As Ensign Steve pointed out, it's not burden at all. More like an interesting adventure.

Let me try to explain my thinking on this subject. The way I see it, the fact that religion is present in all cultures, through all time, tells me that there very well may be something important going on.

But religions are so varied! So I figure any parts they have in common are the most likely parts to have value. Not necessarily, of course, but I can't think of any other approach.

I have found at least one common thread - meditation. All religions involve meditation in one form or another. So I study and learn about meditation, and it turns out that meditation makes sense. It has scientifically verifiable benefits.

So I ask you, Seraphim: are you aware of any threads common to many religions?

Seraphim

By Nowhere357

As Ensign Steve pointed out, it's not burden at all. More like an interesting adventure.

I guess it is individual tread and opinion on how we approach such endavours. Both of you thinks it is an interesting task - something acceptable and admirable, I'm on the otherhand thinks it is a waste of time. Either way, we have our ways.

Let me try to explain my thinking on this subject. The way I see it, the fact that religion is present in all cultures, through all time, tells me that there very well may be something important going on.

But religions are so varied! So I figure any parts they have in common are the most likely parts to have value. Not necessarily, of course, but I can't think of any other approach.

Hmmm ... interesting.
And this "something important" is what? What should it be and should it matter?

Most religions is based on past historical events which was shaped by people who attended to increase the events to bigger length to make it look "interesting" OR even holy. Does that means that you wish to study them to see how historical events could shape a society? I could find logic out of that.

I have found at least one common thread - meditation. All religions involve meditation in one form or another. So I study and learn about meditation, and it turns out that meditation makes sense. It has scientifically verifiable benefits.

So I ask you, Seraphim: are you aware of any threads common to many religions?

I can think of a couple of common threads :

1. Existences of intelligence beings other than humans - whether they are God/Goddess, Devils, Demons, Angels, Seraphims

2. Most religions attend to answer it's followers' questions about the world (which I've begin to wonder whether that is such a good idea to begin with).

3. End of existence - Doomsdays to be exact. Almost EVERY teachings/beliefs I had study HAS this common thread (except Taoism). The people in the past actually believed that human chapter on this Planet is like that of a storybook, we have a beginning and an end.

Nowhere357

ME: But religions are so varied! So I figure any parts they have in common are the most likely parts to have value.

Exactly! That's what I mean!

Religions are also based on people's need for spiritual answers. Also religion is law and rule.

Yes. But until there is evidence, they are not part of my world-view. WHY DO we think there are gods?

Yes. Sure it's a good idea.

Good point. WHY DO we think there is a doomsday?

Seraphim

By Nowhere357

ME: But religions are so varied! So I figure any parts they have in common are the most likely parts to have value.

My reply : Maybe ... can't say much there. Personally because the value is depends on who seeks it and why he seeks it.

Why do you seek it?

As for me, I stopped looking for common treads 10 years ago ... I don't know why, I simply stopped.

Exactly! That's what I mean!

My reply : Well ... when you find that "something which matters", do share.

Again, what that something is usually depends on who seeks it and why. Some may seeks it because they want to seek prove of God, some to prove there is no God and others simply seek it to answer the questions such as "Why am I here?"

Religions are also based on people's need for spiritual answers. Also religion is law and rule.

That's where the mistake comes in when dealing with religion and society.

Religion which is based on learning and developing social skills will enable the society to mature and develop by its own. When that happens, the society by itself is a mature society where things such as crime and social mishaps is avoided. Everyone will live in peace with each other and within themselves.

A religion which is a law and rule will not develop such society. Why? Because unlike religion (which usually written in a book), society changes and the changing society will view the religion by newer concepts than those which was introduced by whoever brought the religion in the first place.

When a society forced to not to change because of its religion (which acts as rule and law), then it will become a close-minded society. A close-minded society is a society which do not allow itself to learn new things and develop new understanding despite of all new development and knowledge around it.

Yes. But until there is evidence, they are not part of my world-view. WHY DO we think there are gods?

My view : I'm not sure about others but I will tell you about my views about this spiritual beings.

I do believe they existed because we exists . I'll explain.
To a small animal such as ants or butterfly, we could look like Gods to them - Gods which destroy their habitats, Gods that changes their world, Gods which creates new worlds and Gods which OUTLIVE them by years. In same manner, we could simply look like ants and butterflies to Gods.

This is not an explaination for Gods, simply my view.

Yes. Sure it's a good idea.

My reply : No, it's not. Do you know why? Mentality problem.

Take Bible and Al Quran for example. When it was revealed (whether by man or God, that's not important), it tried to explain about the world and by today's standards, failed miseably (no offence to Christians and Muslims alike).

Why? Because when Bible and Al Quran appeared, their attended audience were farmers, merchants, soldiers and regular people who didn't even know whether the world was round or flat. And frankly speaking, I don't think they give a damn whether the world was round or flat.

If their prophet (or Chris) said that the world was square and has twelve moons circling it every 5 minutes, I think they will believe it and defended that words with their lives.

So, in my opinion, religion is one which should explain to a person about himself - about greed, lust, anger, hatred etc so he will develop himself and his world and at same time allow that person to go out and find the answers about the world which he lives in by himself. That's to me anyway is what a proper religion should be.

Good point. WHY DO we think there is a doomsday?

Why not? Every story has a beginning and an end ... after all, you want to live forever?

Nowhere357

I'm exploring reality and making a map! Because I like maps! They're really useful, IMO.

<<<checking map>>> We exist! Life exists! It looks here like the universe has the property of life!

We each are made of billions of living cells, and micro-organisms. Circularity and complementarity are properties of reality. Think about it.

I said "is the fact that religion arose partly due to its law making function, a good thing?".

Well, I know what you mean. But religion helped man on his journey, and now we are outgrowing it now. No need to hate it. (I'm not saying you hate it.)

ME: Good point. WHY DO we think there is a doomsday?

I agree. It's just a perfectly understandable myth.

Seraphim

By Nowhere357

I'm exploring reality and making a map! Because I like maps! They're really useful, IMO.

Maps?
What for? Where this map suppose to take you?

<<<checking map>>> We exist! Life exists! It looks here like the universe has the property of life!

You sure took your time to getting to that facts.
IF life could exist here, then the chance of it existing somewhere else is just as high. No need Einstein for that.

We each are made of billions of living cells, and micro-organisms. Circularity and complementarity are properties of reality. Think about it.

Of course ... we are a World by ourselves ... each of cells work in unison to generate enough power to produce consciousness which what makes us.

In another word ... we exist AND at the same time do not exist.
To my cells, what is the proof that I exist? Sounds familiar?

Think about that?

Well, I know what you mean. But religion helped man on his journey, and now we are outgrowing it now. No need to hate it. (I'm not saying you hate it.)

HAHAHAHAHA ... you saying we had OUTGROWN it? Take a look at the world today and you tell me if we had outgrown it.

I agree. It's just a perfectly understandable myth.

So is death a Myth to someone who is too busy running around, gathering wealth and power or simply screwing around.

Nowhere357

Well, I never said I was fast. And I think you missed the point: the universe has the property of life.

Well said, Seraphim! We'll make an on-line guru out of you yet!

No I said we are outgrowing religion. These things take time, Seraphim.

Seraphim

By Nowhere357

Well, I never said I was fast. And I think you missed the point: the universe has the property of life.

Yeah ... universe has the property of life and the chance that there is life somewhere else is just as high as there is life on this world. After all, throw the same condition which the Earth was before Life begin and you can get a chance of life anywhere.

But I don't see why that such a odd or even sensational thing ... if life existed here, why can't in another place? What's a big deal?


Well said, Seraphim! We'll make an on-line guru out of you yet!

O_o oh sure ... an online, RPG (role-playing game) playing guru who spent hours practising swords and martial arts.

Frankly speaking, I don't know what good can someone like me do to another. I just say things which I feel, question people on things they most likely to forgot or don't wish to touch. Trust me when I said people will get tired of me soon enough.

No I said we are outgrowing religion. These things take time, Seraphim.

This I agree. Religions which exists now most of the time cannot answer the questions which one can ask and people attend to get misguided easily.

Hindus believe that in times like this, Vishnu will appear and give humanity guidance.
Muslims and Christians however believe that Jesus/Isa (Muslim's version of Jesus) will appear together with another person called Imam Mahdi and a great battle was to occur.

Either way, the three of them believes that something OR someone is heading our way ... Time to worry.

Then again, see a God's face (if Vishnu) or a great battle which could occur once in a Yugam (age) is something I don't mind looking at before I die.