Proxima Centauri

It apears the Wonderful Holy Roman Church considers sex between Priests and children less serious than sex between Priests and adult women. Priests guilty of paedophile offences risk less serious punishment from the Church. No wonder there have been so many cases of children damaged by Roman Catholic Priests.

Its impossible to prove scientifically what proportion of Roman Catholic Clerics really believe in God. As a very rough guess I would suggest probably at least half do. These Clerics are clearly less moral than most agnostics or atheists. Here's a link giving details.

<a href="http://alterboys.tripod.com/Faith/Priests_protex.html" target="_blank">http://alterboys.tripod.com/Faith/Priests_protex.html</a>

[ June 20, 2002: Message edited by: B.Shack ]</p>

Proxima Centauri

Moral systems based on the alleged truth of some supposedly revealed sacred text are inherently more likely to cause harm than scientific humanist morality.

Roman Catholics are taught that if they don't respect their priests this is sinful. Priests are taught to respect their superiors or confess the sin of disrespect. The superiors are old men who cannot always see the need for change. While everybody tries to be a good respectful Catholic the kids suffer.

Oh dear! If you are not respectful you might go Hell or suffer unimaginably long in Purgatory.

At last the lay Roman Catholic are beginning to see that many of their leaders don't deserve respect. The situation will probably improve partially.

<img src="graemlins/banghead.gif" border="0" alt="[Bang Head]" />

[ June 17, 2002: Message edited by: B.Shack ]</p>

DMB

IMO, the basic problem is one that is common to most human organisations. Whatever the raison d’être of the organisation, its members eventually come to make the survival of the organisation the prime goal.

It is quite clear that the catholic hierarchy give the survival and continued power of the church much higher priority than the interests of the laity, however they dress it up. So they were able to do all these cover ups in the interest of the church while more or less ignoring the damage to and suffering of the abused children.

sullster

I don't know if those of you back across the pond are following the meeting of the bishops of the US RCC in Dallas but they have all voted on a new plan for dealing with pedophiles,(here in the colonies we don't use the "a" in the spelling just to show up you Brits).

Guess what? All that happens to a priestly child raper is that he can't do the priest magic show anymore at your local parish. Harsh punishment indeed.

No mention whatsoever of penalties for the mighty bishops and cardinals who cover up and move around the pervert-priests. No surprise there from the dear hierarchy. Let us pray.

There already has been a Martin Luther and a reformation and we know what religious idiocy all that brought on, but maybe there needs to be a new reformation of the catholic church. IT is in deep trouble and is sinking fast.

Bible Humper

I doubt a real reformation would even be feasible, because the priesthood is packed with these diddlers, though they might try if all else fails. I forget the name, but there was a pope in the sixteenth century who entertained the elite of Italy by throwing parties that included naked little boys hopping out of tubs of pudding. A pope mind you. This scandal is just business as usual.

We can only speculate, but it seems likely that pedophilia has been such an integral part of the Catholic priesthood, for such a loooong time, that it would be impossible to exorcise without bringing the house down. I feel bad for the third world kids where this issue would be buried and the abuse switched to some other kids. That papal candidate in Honduras is calling the media attention this scandal is receiving "Gestapo-like"

[ June 15, 2002: Message edited by: Bible_Humper ]</p>

sullster

I basically agree with you, Bible-humper. When you study the history of the popes during the Renaissance, you would think that the Mafia was in control. The Borgia pope and the Medicis were able to have huge orgies and kill their political and theological enemies.

But, as nihilisitic and violently pragmatic as they were, they didn't burn the one guy who posed the greatest threat. Old Marty Luther. We difinitely have the catholics to blame for the scourge of fundamentalism. They could have killed it off early, but that is another story.

The big mistake the present day leaders of this cult made was pissing off the press.

When Cardinal Law called down,quote, "the power of God on the press", back in 1993 when the pedophile scandal rose up for a little while, he made a mistake worthy of the Medici popes when they didn't kill Martin Luther. You never taunt the press. They will take up the challenge and get you. It may take some time but they will do it.

If it wasn't for moron Law, the good times would still be going on and that is the reason the Vatican is pissed. They don't give two damns about the kids. All that matters is the institution, period.

Proxima Centauri

There's all that sh-t going on in the Roman Catholic Church. In other Churches there's similar sh-t or different sh-t.


Then they'll try and tell us if we're atheists or agnostics we must be evil.

abe smith

I'd just like to reiterate: THE CHEUCH IS A HUMAN FICTION. = there ISN'T any "Church". If you read the far-down fine print of the newspaper reports about what the hierarchs say, you will latch-on to the fact that Bishops & Cardinals don't give a fuck about the victims, nor about what "the laity" think/feel/experience about all-this um material. All that the hierarchs keep prating about is that "the CHURCH" must not suffer "scandal". They are a bunch of god-damned IDOLATERS; to whom their IDOL, the Church, that non-existent fiction, matters more than their fellow-human beings matter, more than justice matters, more than "God" matters! And it's a damned lucky thing for them all that "God" is also a human fiction; & the Last Judgement isn't going to take place. I find that my face-to-face Catholic informants are finally getting wise to this. It probably won't last tho. Abe.

DMB

There is some organised catholic opposition to Vatican stupidity. See <a href="http://www.cath4choice.org" target="_blank">this site.</a> These people are heroic. The catholic hierarchy have tried to do them down for years.

Proxima Centauri

We've got the same trouble on our side of the Atlantic. We never call it a pond. Here's what a Catholic Website has to say about Archbishop Murphy-O'Connor. Sorry! They also spell it 'paedophile'.

One example was The tragedy of Archbishop Murphy-O'Connor's criminal negligence in the Fr Michael Hill paedophile case will be lived and suffered by Hill's victims to their dying days. Yet not only is the Archbishop devoid of the Christian conscience which would have prompted his resignation in order to spend the rest of his life on his knees doing penance for these ruined lives, he is in line to be rewarded by elevation to the College of Cardinals! Never mind that his name is mentioned in reports about senior detectives now investigating "senior figures in the Catholic Church who covered up the activities of paedophile priests." In these circumstances, what sort of message would doling out a red hat to Westminster send to the British populace, especially in light of the latest expose of Archbishop Ward's complicity in the Fr Joe Jordan paedophile saga? Readers are urged to help preserve the Church's credibility in Britain by writing to Rome in vigorous protest against Cormac Murphy-O'Connor being made a Cardinal.

Here's more details from this Catholic site.

<a href="http://www.christianorder.com/features/features_2000/red_hat/red_hat_final_call.html" target="_blank">RED HAT ALERT - FINAL CALL !</a>

Cormac Murphy-O'Connor is now 'His Eminence Cardinal CORMAC MURPHY-O'CONNOR STL PhL.
Tenth Cardinal Archbishop of Westminster' High moral standards these Roman Catholics have.

Here's what the more impartial BBC has to say.


<a href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/uk/newsid_840000/840594.stm" target="_blank">Archbishop defends paedophile move
</a>

Only those psychologists who said what
Murphy-O'Connor wanted to hear counted. The rest were ignored.

Murphy-O'Connor must have realized there was a risk. Why did he put Fr Michael Hill into Gatwick Airport? It looks like he was trying to minimize a risk he knew existed. Also if Fr Michael Hill managed to get his hands onto a little boy at the airport the chances were the boy would be many miles away in an areoplane in a short time.

Here's the news about Fr Joe Jordan and Archbishop Ward. This time the Archbishop resigned after great pressure. Praise the Saints.


<a href="http://news.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=%2Fnews%2F2001%2F10%2F27%2Fnbish27. xml" target="_blank">Paedophile row archbishop quits</a>

There was let another case in Birmingham, where I live involving a certain Fr Sam Penny. This time the Bishop seems to have resigned. Praise God for that.

Here's the link to the Guardian Newspaper, a newspaper with a high reputation for impartiality and truthfullness.

<a href="http://www.guardian.co.uk/letters/story/0,3604,584552,00.html" target="_blank">Infighting over paedophile priests </a>



[ June 20, 2002: Message edited by: B.Shack ]

[Edited to try and fix funky formatting - BJM]

[ July 09, 2002: Message edited by: Bree ]</p>