ybnormal

Altho I got bored with school and never went to college much, and even then, math was my worst subject, I think you need to check your math my friend.

Where please, do you get your 76% of people living with AIDS are gay (men)?

Maybe you got yourself confused when you visually (for effect I susppose) tied the MSM and IDU numbers together, by inserting that little separator between IDU and Heterosexual.

The way I read your numbers, you visually join MSM (all gays to you?) with IDU, and then join Heterosexual with the unknown. In other words, there's no reason for that little separator, unless you think "intravenous drug user" means "Gay man." Then, maybe that was in error too. But that ain't where your math is wrong tho; just where you maybe confused your numbers.

(I'd also like to know where you get your 2-3% figure as well)

Anyway, check your math... I think you'll find (using your site's numbers) that your 76% figure is actually less than 36% (35.7%) of people living with AIDS in the US that can be identified as being "Gay" men. (Hint: 47% of 76%)

And to make it worse, you joined two of the site's categories- "New AIDS cases" & "Mode of transmission".

Actually they are "New HIV infections" & "Mode of transmission".

Men now represent only 70% of "New HIV infections" instead of 76% "living with AIDS", so now, Man/Man sex represents less than 33%, or less than one-third of all New HIV infections. (Hint: 47% of 70%)

WOW! By my poor math, you are off by 40% and/or 43%.

What say you?

I mean, why all the hullabaloo over just 33% of the cases being man/man sex, when women represent a full 30%?

And of course, the .gov site didn't say "Homosexual MSM sex" did it? Just MSM sex!

You do understand the difference, right?

I mean, how else can you fully explain the fact that 75% of Women contract AIDS thru regular ole straight heterosexual Christian-loving sex?

At first, I figured all this was off topic, but I reckon any disinformation intended to further injure all Gay men who've never hurt you, ought to be considered under this topic of "Christian punishment for gays..."

Peace anyway!

Vesica

That is exactly what I was saying...Looking at dk's post right below mine, the Biblical references to 'rendering unto Ceaser' are quoted.

As I see it (based on the Bible) I have an obligation to obey the laws of the land I live in (as long as they do not require me to do something that is a personal sin...like bow down to an image of Pres. Bush (like any of us would do that anyway)). I also have an obligation to respect those in political authority over me, respect not blindly obey or agree with.

But nowhere have I found the suggestion that the personal moral code outlined in the Bible should be implimented as social law and applied to those who do not believe. This applies to homosexuality, abortion, stem cell research and many other issues 'hotly' opposed by Christians. I fail to see how making people feel that they are evil, bad, or disgusting or (on a legal note) denying them the right to health care, adoption or medical services is fufill Jesus' command to Love one another...It is not very loving (in my view) to attack people's charcters and seek a legal means to persecute and oppress them...Of course, I may be the only Christian that feels like that.

Vesica

I have to conceed that the Old Testement has a number of personal morals=social law statements but last time I checked I was living in a country with an actual political system not a local community unified by common religious and familial ties....In English:
When I move to the kibbutz or Christian commune in B.F.E. then I will worry about using Biblical law as a guide for national law!

MrDarwin

Ah yes, these discussions always come up. I tend to stay out of tjem (been there, done that), but thought I would share my partner's and my "gay lifestyle" with you:

7:30 am, cat wakes us up by walking on top of us. Get up. Feed cat. Shower, dress, go to work. Spend all day at work, come home, make dinner (sometimes going out to eat), read the paper, argue over what to watch on TV, websurf, eat too much junk food, 11:00 pm, go to bed.

Repeat, repeat, repeat. When we're feeling really wild and crazy, we'll vary our routine by sitting down to pay bills. Weekends I usually spend working in the garden while my partner goes to karate class. On Sunday we sleep late, go to the farmer's market and flea market, and sometimes (hold on to your hats) invite friends over for a barbecue.

Tonight there will be so much excitement we can scarcely contain ourselves: grocery shopping and frantic housecleaning as my partner's sister and niece are coming from out of town, so we'll spend the weekend entertaining guests.

Come Monday, back to the ordinary routine.

Phew! What a lifestyle!

BTW, my partner and I have been together for 20 years; neither of us has AIDS, and neither of us is HIV+. Our circle of friends and acquaintances has not been decimated by AIDS (although we have heard that a couple of long-ago acquaintances from college have died). I don't think we're atypical because most of our friends are also in long-term relationships, and as far as we can tell, live similar "lifestyles".

Ab_Normal

I know this is off-topic, but I am compelled to congratulate anyone who keeps a relationship together for any length of time. So... congratulations!

raistlinjones

Yeah, I'm appalled by it too. There's a reason I'm not a Christian, and it's precisely because being one would imply the view I expressed. However, maybe you're right - I probably shouldn't have presumed to be able to represent the Christian angle on things merely from reading the Bible.

So you think you can personally go through the Bible and decide what rules to follow and what ones don't matter? This question had NOTHING to do with "judging others" and everything to do with the proper punishment for someone that is involved in homosexual activities. The Bible is quite clear and explicit on what to do with that type of person. If you don't agree with it, get a new religion.

MrDarwin

Let's cut to the chase: what you're saying is that, instead of the federal government telling us how to live our lives, the states should be telling us how to live our lives.

(BTW I might note that not a single state sodomy law has been struck down by any federal court. State sodomy laws have been repealed or declared unconstitutional at the state level, one by one, by state legislatures and state courts.)

dk

The following table should clear up some misnomers. I did make some mistakes in my previous post, we both did. I cross referenced the statistics with the source report listed below.

• |EXPOSURE CATEGORY| _ % : # MALE___ | % : # FEMALE_ | TOTAL% : #
  .________________ . ____________ . _____________._____________|
• MSM______________ | 56% :361,867 | 00% : ____ 0 | 46% :361,867
  MSM AND IDU_______ | 08% : 50,066 | 00% : ____ 0 | 06% : 50,066
• IDU_______________ | 22% :142,888 | 40% : 54,203 | 25% :197,091
• UNKNOWN__________ | 08% : 53,429 | 16% : 21,712 | 10% : 75,142
• HETEROSEXUAL______ | 05% : 30,956 | 41% : 54,782 | 11% : 85,738
• BLOOD_____________ | 01% : 05,031 | 03% : _3,863 | 01% : 08,894
• HEMOPHILIA_________ | 01% : 04,949 | 00% : __ 285 | 01% : 05,234
  .________________ . ____________ . _____________._____________|
• | TOT COLUMNS____ | 100%:649,186 | 100%/134,845 | 100%:784,032

]
A couple of comments on what I found irritating about this exercise.
<ol type="1">[*]10% OR 75,142 CASES WERE OF UNKNOWN EXPOSURE
_____________I.E.
_____________8% OR 53,429 __MEN OF UNKNOWN EXPOSURE
____________16% OR 21,712 WOMEN OF UNKNOWN EXPOSURE.[*]06% : 49,920 CASES HETEROSEXUAL (MEN AND WOMEN) UNKNOWN EXPOSURE,
_____________I.E.
____________68% OR 20,956 OF __MALE HETEROSEXUALS PARTNER OF UNKNOWN EXPOSURE
____________75% OR 28,963 OF FEMALE HETEROSEXUALS PARTNER OF UNKNOWN EXPOSURE[*]__________________________________________________ ______________[*]16% /125,062 cases Total of unknown exposure[/list=a]

[ September 07, 2002: Message edited by: dk ]</p>

dk

Medical tactics against contagious disease are to reduce exposure, and isolate outbreaks until a vaccine can be developed. AIDs have been fought with political tactics. In the US 25% of all AIDs survivors live in 3 metropolitan areas, NY, LA and SF. That's a problem because high density of any contagious disease accelerates all vectors of MDR microbes.

Metropolitan Area ___ : # of Cumulative AIDS Cases :
New York City _______ : 122,062 :
Los Angeles _________ : 42,796 :
San Francisco _______ : 28,212 : Top 3 Areas 25%

Miami _______________ : 24,838 : :
Washington, DC ______ : 24,029 :
Chicago _____________ : 22,217 : Top 6 Areas 34%
Philadelphia ________ : 19,605 : :
Houston _____________ : 19,582 : :
Newark ______________ : 17,472 :
Atlanta _____________ : 16,423 : Top 10 Areas 43%

[ September 07, 2002: Message edited by: dk ]</p>

ybnormal

I took the time to detail your mistakes...

Have the courtesy to do more than imply, we both made mistakes...

I suggest that I made NO mistake, using your posted numbers...

Before I continue, please POST MY MISTAKE...

Simple math is fairly exact...

Here are your original numbers...

Using your above numbers, what please can be simpler than 47% of 76% = 36%?

Your mistakes are crystal clear to me, and you kinda sorta almost admitted to them, by saying that you made some mistakes.

I suggest that being 40% and/or 43% off is more than some...

Where is MY mistake?

It is more than disingenuous to NOW change to different, more complex and more detailed numbers, BEFORE you POST MY MISTAKE...

You did not post the "following" numbers until AFTER you accused me of making mistakes with your original numbers...

Again, what mistake did I make, using your original numbers, when I corrected your 76% of people living with AIDS are gay (men)?

And was it, "misnomers" or an overzealous error?

You purposely highlighted an inflated number -- "represent 76% of people living with AIDS."

Using your original numbers posted here (not on the web site), were you or were you not, off by some 40% and/or 43%?

Only when you answer that simple question and/or point out MY mistake when using your originally posted numbers, will I consider looking at your NEW and different numbers.

Until then, I stand behind my entire post.

I refuse to allow your over-zealousness, to be turned into MY mistake.

Peace!