Freethought & Rationalism Archive

conkermaniac · 08-05-2003, 04:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Magus55
You certaintly don't lack in the arrogance and pride department.

Yep, and this coming from a self-proclaimed genius and musical prodigy.

winstonjen · 08-05-2003, 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Magus55
And not that you'd believe it, but I do have near genius IQ, if not over the genious mark.

By what standards? Comparing yourself to the other fundies on FSTDT?

Quote:

And I'm a musical prodigy. But since I believe in God, i must be stupid right?

Not at all. I'm looking forward to your love songs about Jesus, and how much you want to be with him for all eternity.

Magus55 · 08-05-2003, 06:04 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by conkermaniac
Yep, and this coming from a self-proclaimed genius and musical prodigy.

I never bragged about it or said i'm better than anyone. Doesn't really make much difference to me. The point of bringing it up, was to show it is an ignorant statement to say theists, especially biblical literalists are stupid and lack intelligence.

Magus55 · 08-05-2003, 06:08 PM

Quote:

And Hawking says when he refers to "god" he's using a metaphor for the laws of nature. Do you theists think if you repeat a lie often enough it will be true? Oh wait- of course you do.

Stephen Hawking (British theoretical physicist and author): "The laws of science, as we know them at present, contain many fundamental numbers, like the size of the electric charge of the electron and the ratio of the masses of the proton and the electron... The remarkable fact is that the values of these numbers seem to have been very finely adjusted to make possible the development of life."[19]

How do the laws of nature finely adjust themselves to make possible the development of life? Laws can't change or adjust themselves. Something outside those laws has to change or adjust them.

And what about other physicists, astronomers, mathematicians, astrophysicists etc. that can't deny a super intelliect or higher being planning the universe and life? Are nobel prize winners, and those "knighted" for their expertise stupid too?

hinduwoman · 08-05-2003, 06:41 PM

Magus55, every religious believer is convinced that his god exists and his holy book is a divine revelation.
so your claim is nothing special.

Hedwig · 08-05-2003, 06:48 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Magus55

Why bother, you won't listen to any of my explanations. You will just come up with some not so witty, sarcastic response to insult me.

Magus, are you going to keep running back to this same old persecution argument every time someone asks you to do something that you can't do? Do you realize how immature this makes you sound?

winstonjen · 08-05-2003, 07:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Magus55
I never bragged about it or said i'm better than anyone. Doesn't really make much difference to me. The point of bringing it up, was to show it is an ignorant statement to say theists, especially biblical literalists are stupid and lack intelligence.

I would like to see your definition of 'bragging.' Did you have to mention yourself in your "Theists R De Best" statement?

Philosoft · 08-05-2003, 07:27 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Magus55
Stephen Hawking (British theoretical physicist and author): "The laws of science, as we know them at present, contain many fundamental numbers, like the size of the electric charge of the electron and the ratio of the masses of the proton and the electron... The remarkable fact is that the values of these numbers seem to have been very finely adjusted to make possible the development of life."[19]

How do the laws of nature finely adjust themselves to make possible the development of life? Laws can't change or adjust themselves. Something outside those laws has to change or adjust them.

As I am currently re-reading A Brief History of Time, I think I am qualified to comment. You left out a small part that qualifies that quote, Magus - it's called the entire rest of the chapter, wherein Hawking discusses at some length many of the so-called finely tuned values of the universe and the non-God hypotheses that purport to explain them.

So, as you seem to have quoted the above passage in an attempt to dishonestly color Hawking a theist of some stripe, I think you owe everyone here an apology. Not to mention Hawking.

Quote:

And what about other physicists, astronomers, mathematicians, astrophysicists etc. that can't deny a super intelliect or higher being planning the universe and life? Are nobel prize winners, and those "knighted" for their expertise stupid too?

What about them? Do you have any quotes from any of them you might like to run by us?

winstonjen · 08-05-2003, 07:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Magus55
And what about other physicists, astronomers, mathematicians, astrophysicists etc. that can't deny a super intelliect or higher being planning the universe and life? Are nobel prize winners, and those "knighted" for their expertise stupid too?

Thanks to missus_gumby!

Mageth · 08-05-2003, 07:48 PM

Originally posted by Magus55
Stephen Hawking (British theoretical physicist and author): "The laws of science, as we know them at present, contain many fundamental numbers, like the size of the electric charge of the electron and the ratio of the masses of the proton and the electron... The remarkable fact is that the values of these numbers seem to have been very finely adjusted to make possible the development of life."

And here's a quote from the end of the chapter that quote is mined from:

Quote:

The idea that space and time may form a closed surface without boundary also has profound implications for the role of God in the affairs of the universe. With the success of scientific theories in describing events, most people have come to believe that God allows the universe to evolve according to a set of laws and does not intervene in the universe to break these laws. However, the laws do not tell us what the universe should have looked like when it started � it would still be up to God to wind up the clockwork and choose how to start it off. So long as the universe had a beginning, we could suppose it had a creator. But if the universe is really completely self-contained, having no boundary or edge, it would have neither beginning nor end: it would simply be. What place, then, for a creator?

How do the laws of nature finely adjust themselves to make possible the development of life? Laws can't change or adjust themselves. Something outside those laws has to change or adjust them.

Perhaps the laws of nature are not changed or adjusted at all. From the same paragraph that your quote was mined from:

Quote:

Most sets of values would give rise to universes that, although they might be very beautiful, would contain no one able to wonder at that beauty. One can take this either as evidence of a divine purpose in Creation and the choice of the laws of science or as support for the strong anthropic principle.

Magus, meet the antropic principle.

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08-05-2003, 06:41 PM	#35
hinduwoman Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: India Posts: 6,977	Magus55, every religious believer is convinced that his god exists and his holy book is a divine revelation. so your claim is nothing special.

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